Ja, Very nice drawing indeed!...I just now got it...I have been waining for over a hour now for this mystery drawing everyone was refereing to.....:) j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Paul, Glad to hear it's not long forgotten. Take your time, your choice of discussing the axioms involved in formulating one's mindset torwards creation or evolution was great idea. Everyone, Attached is a drawing illustraiting my understanding of what we should see produced in star trails from the nightly and annual axis of rotation. Since the baseline (distance from observer to axis of rotation) is so small compared the distance to the stars, I have basically made it zero length, in order to get the drawing somewhat to scale. I added a star A to the drawing to help my imagination, it could be any star that would be very close to the annual axis of rotation. Finally I made what it should look like if you took 24 nightly star trail pictures (spaced semi-monthly) and superimposed them on a single annual star trail. enough nightly star trails superimposed together should form the outline of the annual. Your comments please. I want to make sure I understand this and do not have something basic wrong. JA... Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: JA Yes old man, you are so right! You will be pleased to know (I just know you'll be pleased to know!) that I have put in some effort -- two or three nights at least -- but as you can see we are caught up in a maelstrom at the moment and -- to mix a metaphor -- if I let go of the tail now I will be left far behind. It is proving difficult for me to get it all together (the evolution paradigm thing) I just don't seem to be able to take reasonably complex philosophical concepts and reduce them to a single term for evaluation purposes any more but I have not forgotten and will get back to it with any luck at all. I've extracted this from your post -- It has been stated that this annual star trail does not exist. Has anyone recorded an annual star trail??? I want to see the picture! If we superimposed 2 nightly star trail photos from 6 months apart (erase all circles except polaris for simplicity) we should see the center of the two nightly circles of polaris ~23 degrees apart, if they are not, then we have our proof positive of the falsity of A-centrism. No -- I'm afraid that won't work. You are confusing parallax with the effects of differing axes of rotation. Don't feel too bad though, there has been confusion enough for all to get a share. I'm hoping my last two posts may help clear things up. Paul D --------------------------------- National Bingo Night. Play along for the chance to win $10,000 every week. Download your gamecard now at Yahoo!7 TV. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com