On 12/19/05, Kevin Fields <drunkendruid@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > If you were Microsoft, trying to further your own graphics API, wouldn't you > view supporting newer versions of a competing graphics API as a drain of > time and resources? After all, why spend time working on the competing API, > when that could be better spent advancing or fixing your own? That's what I > meant. Besides, didn't Microsoft pull out of the ARB a few years ago? They > have little incentive to support OpenGL; it's a direct threat to them. That was my whole point, as I was stating earlier. When you said... >>Microsoft isn't trying to kill OpenGL. **SNIP*** >>But, people are panicking because Vista's default desktop is using DirectX >>10, and will convert OpenGL calls to DirectX calls. These people are causing >>mass hysteria with no good reason to. They just refuse to find out accurate >>information. You just contradicted your own statement. You agree they are trying to stifle OpenGL, and yes, to end users this is a bad thing. I don't see any mass hysteria thats unwarranted. I have already said, in Microsofts view, this is a good change, to go towards their own API and not support a competitors, but from an end user point of view, with lots of OpenGL Apps, this is a bad thing, as well as possibly spelling an end to a lot of OpenGL development. > >From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >Reply-To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL reality check. > >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:14:23 -0600 > > > >On Sat, 2005-12-17 at 10:39 -0400, Kevin Fields wrote: > > > But Microsoft isn't phasing out OpenGL. They've said that they > >(Microsoft) > > > aren't going to support anything past OpenGL 1.5, and that further > > > implementations and support will be up to the individual card > >manufacturers. > > > Their reason for this is that they're developing a new set of video > >drivers > > > that are going to add a whole new way of doing GPU programming, and it > >would > > > be a huge drain of time to support both DirectX 9/10 AND further > > > implementations of OpenGL, when the new setup is optimized specifically > >for > > > DirectX. > > > >Sorry, I have to call bullshit right here. It takes one or two man years > >to do a good port of OpenGL to new hardware. On the out side 10 man > >years. I've seen it done by one good person in less than a year. For MS > >to claim that is a huge drain of resources for them is simply a smoke > >screen. The only way it gets to be a huge project is if you are writing > >the entire API from scratch. But, even that isn't a big project for an > >organization the size of MS. > > > > Bob Pendleton > > > > > > > > There's an article on GameDev.Net by one of the DirectX MVPs. He talks > >about > > > DirectX 10's architecture, and how it fits with Vista. > > > > > > Here's the article: > > > http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2280.asp > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > >From: Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@xxxxxxxxx> > > > >Reply-To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL reality check. > > > >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:15:21 +0100 > > > > > > > >There is at least one thing that makes MS attempt to put down OpenGL > > > >performance inconceivable: very many CAD programs rely on OpenGL, and > >if > > > >OpenGL performance drops, CAD users will take notice, thus making > >Windows > > > >Vista a "not so good option for CAD users". The CAD users are quite > >many.. > > > >And don't tell me CAD programs "does not need the realtime experience > >like > > > >games" - try that statement on a young mechanical engineer/designer in > >your > > > >neighbourhood! Realtime if VERY important if you sit all day designing > > > >stuff.. > > > > > > > >Just my 2cc > > > > > > > >/Olof > > > > > > > >On 12/17/05, Kevin Fields <drunkendruid@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft isn't trying to kill OpenGL. They just aren't supporting > >it > > > > > using > > > > > the new desktop. The new desktop shell is using DirectX 10 to take > > > > > advantage > > > > > of the hardware. The old desktop is still available, which, as > >Microsoft > > > > > had > > > > > stated, will have support for up to GL 1.5. Beyond 1.5, Microsoft is > > > > > leaving > > > > > the support up to the individual card manufacturers, which is what's > > > > > currently happening anyway. > > > > > > > > > > But, people are panicking because Vista's default desktop is using > > > >DirectX > > > > > 10, and will convert OpenGL calls to DirectX calls. These people are > > > > > causing > > > > > mass hysteria with no good reason to. They just refuse to find out > > > > > accurate > > > > > information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > >Reply-To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > >To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL reality check. > > > > > >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:38:03 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Matthew Weigel wrote: > > > > > > > Bob Pendleton wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o Is OpenGL still a viable graphics API for use on Windows? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Books are still being published on the subject of OpenGL on > >Windows; > > > >I > > > > > > > think it's doing fine. Games are still coming out that use > >OpenGL > > > >as > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a big to-do going on regarding Vista, per > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL#Future_in_Microsoft_Windows, > >but > > > >I > > > > > > > suspect that Microsoft will back down very quickly when users > >begin > > > >to > > > > > > > view their decision as degrading the performance of *old* OpenGL > > > > > games, > > > > > > > never mind new ones. > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for that pointer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Pendleton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >+--------------------------------------+ > > > > > >+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer + > > > > > >+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx + > > > > > >+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com + > > > > > >+ www.Wise2Food.com + > > > > > >+ nutrient info on 7,000+ common foods + > > > > > >+--------------------------------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------- > > > > > >To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >+--------------------------------------+ > >+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer + > >+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx + > >+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com + > >+ www.Wise2Food.com + > >+ nutrient info on 7,000+ common foods + > >+--------------------------------------+ > > > > > > > >--------------------- > >To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html > > > > > > > > > --------------------- > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html > > > --------------------- To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html