[cryptome] Re: Brexit v Bremain: EU Referendum 2016: Aftermath

  • From: John Young <jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:16:48 -0400

Are there ingredients for cooking up a civil war? Where are the military and spies
in this simmering conflict? They have treaties and ties to EU, NATO, former
colonies, customers for their armaments and technologies, duplicities and
bitter vengeances. WMDs, bases, ports, satellites, comsec, secrets are
imperiled. Oil, more oil, tankers of oil, oil awaiting underground, under sea.
Natural gas as capacious as parliamentaries, hovering in Russia and its
colonies, offshore the Levantine. Quick, the markets demand instant
answers or the bottom drops beyond recovery.

Who will invade to rescue the disputants? Best check the US Civil War
for guidance in sanctimonious internecine butchering.

At 11:30 AM 6/25/2016, you wrote:

And now...the shock sets in...the uncertainty, the risk...the cost. It's OK to win a debate.  It is OK to receive a mandate...but how and who is to put it into operation?. The remain crowd want instant answers from the brexit crowd. Solve it all in a day. Now we are out, now we are no longer the "in" crowd, but still in charge, what do we do?...Not a lot...is the answer...

 What are the brexit crowd going to do...Nuffink...what are the answers...Brexit don't know...they haven't got that far.  They are not in charge. The remain crowd are in charge...and they don't like being instructed by the people to get out of the EU. Splits and divisions are everywhere, between town and country, class and privilege, working class and middle class, young and old, north and south, nation and nation.Â

Dear Colleagues,

Today, on "Any Questions" on BBC Radio 4, there was a very interesting discussion between 4 M.P.s from the two main parties about what happened, where it went wrong, personal recriminations vicious attempts at accusing one another of lying and deceit...lies told about immigration, about the economy about security; politicians should only tell lies to foreign leaders, but not to their own people...said one M.P. I thought that was funny, some kind of twisted morality there, and where do we go from here. We need psychotherapists not politicians.

Afterwards, in "Any Answers" Joe Public had a chance to speak over the telephone. Such crying and wailing I have never heard...One would think it was the end of the world for some. The Referendum was a fiddle, lies were being told by politicians, so negating the debate and referendum, the big red bus belonging to the Brexit lot had £350 million a week to go to the NHS if we vote to leave. Oh! Dear! It went on and on. Some folks voted with their heart and not their minds and want another referendum, because they aren't happy with the result, and didn't expect the outcome. Some youngsters were crying their hearts out saying that they had no future. Others want a re-run...a petition with over 1,000,000 signatures has been lodged on the Parliament Web Site, asking for another one. Others are saying let's have a general election, now that the Prime Minister is going. Others still, say that there should be a 75% vote for in the referendum, with over 75% of the population voting.   52% to 48% is not a mandate..

Actually, there is no way of implementing the result of the referendum, as Mr. Cameron has decided to leave the decision to the next Prime Minister who won't be selected by the Party Conference in October.  So, the Tory plot to get us out by the 80 Eurosceptic, may yet unravel. The EU wants us to enter a Section 50 notice of leaving straight away as they don't want to hang around due to insecurities in their own back yards, and want to get on with punishing us, to show the rest of the 500 million people not to bother trying to leave. The markets are affected, Obama is putting us at the bottom of the queue for trade, the country is falling apart...doom, doom, doom. Meanwhile, back in reality, some of us are looking forward to this brave new world, where a little England is to be born from a Great Britain...and Scotland is to become independent and part of the EU...and Northern Ireland might sign a treaty with Eire...There are times when politics can be a real gem...:-).

Who would be a politician...


On 24/06/2016 11:55, Douglas rankine (Redacted sender douglasrankine2001 for DMARC) wrote:

Well! Much to my surprise...and the horror of the Big Yins, the politicians, establishment, financiers, banks, the experts, the gurus and the upper Middle Classes of England who work at the independent BBC, the British people voted by 52% to 48% to come out of the European Union.  An historic event, a deliberate event, resulting in chaos in the international financial markets...so much so that I couldn't invest any money in shares this morning, due to my trader being unavailable, perhaps some of the "secret" measures which have been taken by the Bank of England to prevent the economy going down the pan...or it might just be...that the stockbroker is a bit busy with people like me, the small investor on a pension, turning his useless savings into an attempt at capital gains. No millions of share trades a second for me then. I am off on holiday shortly, and didn't buy any Euros, so I am losing out there.

It was all going so well on TV...the usual line up of commentators, of pollsters, of politicians on both sides, of establishment figures, all dressed up in their fine clothes, looking respectable and looking forward to earning easy money in appearance fees at the license payers expense and all clambering to get on the tele...knowing smiles between them all, in the expectation that the people of the UK...or more correctly, the English Shires, would vote for Remain.

And then...came Sunderland...a massive vote for no...Sunderland is in the North of England, not all that big in population terms and hasn't been doing very well economically, lots of unemployment and poor people, low priced housing, unlike London with its housing and financial centres all locked into Europe and the international financial markets, and making plenty of spondoolix from their investments in housing and the financial centre. The massive unexpected rejection of the EU, was a small fact but which shook the foundations, the assumptions of greatness; the stanchions of confidence...and wiped the smiles from the faces of the Big Yins assembled at the BBC...From then on, it was a downward trend...a terrible situation, all the usual diatribes, monologues of self-recrimination, from the politicians of the main parties, of how they should have listened to the people. The Labour Party was already fucked...their role in the Scottish Independence Referendum, done for them, lost them their credibility with the Scottish people, and also affected the traditional confidence which the English working classes had in them. The working classes of England ignored their advice, knowing full well that their leader was tongue in cheek, and only believed in the EU when he became Leader of the Labour Party. The Tories were also fucked in Scotland, done for by Margaret Thatcher and her poll tax which turned Scotland into a turmoil, they too were split, it was their Eurosceptic M.P.s who organised the referendum and the leave campaign. UKIP screwed up in the campaign, and Farage was all over the place last night, but not very visible on the tele, claiming a losing wicket at first, then claiming victory a tad too early...such is the way of UKIP.

What a mix we have. Scotland and London and tiny Northern Ireland has voted to continue with the EU. Whilst, most of the rest of England and Wales has voted against our continuing membership. Scotland is now saying that they will have another referendum, with a view to joining the European Union as in independent nation...The financial markets have reacted poorly to this new opportunity for the UK.   So much for entrepreneurship...more to do with defraying risk, than taking risk...but isn't that the way of the capitalists, they do like to be subsidised by the state when they take risks, then if all goes well, they get the profits, and if it goes badly, the taxpayer bails them out. Pyramids are crumbling, small is beautiful...the Wee Yins have dumped on the Big Yins, but not for long. The European and World markets and governments have not taken kindly to the vote...the Empire will fight back.

Still, that is what politics and human relationships, between states, governments, businesses and people is all about. Sometime, somewhere, someone or something, throws a spanner in the works, and just as we start to get complacent, along comes a kick up the arse and gets us all going again.

Is this a move to the right or left, is it a move towards fascism? Difficult to talk in those terms these day. Certainly moves towards lots of little chaoses.

Is small beautiful? Will we see a break up of the EU, a new superstate called the Disunited European Union, as part of the world free market, along with the Disunited United Kingdom...and perhaps a Disunited States of America under Donal Trump? Questions for the future...methinks.:-)

With kind regards,


P.S. Donal Trump is coming to Scotland today, to look down upon his golfing empire. Some unkind Scot has posted a Mexican Flag on a high flagpole in full view of the route of his cortège as he comes to visit...what a welcome...:-).

P.P.S. And what about international security and intelligence...Will it be less secure now that the UK has voted to leave the EU. Haven't heard a dickey bird...maybe the answer to that is a...you've guessed it...a secret...:-).

On 24/06/2016 00:13, Adrien Jolibert wrote:
Brexit is not loosing an opinion.

They are loosing democracy as in democrate. This is the sadness thing Europe can see and aplaude.

From Marx to others before thinkers, all the system is mad.

I am so sad all those smarts went dumb because all of you are enginees of massive destruction.
Europe is not A money but where people cross others.
Europe is where opinions differs and give richness.

Europe is build from its richness not its clossness.
A brexit was greater than a join because we are not sames.

Thank you for voting Britain. Bless on you.

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 12:20 PM, douglas rankine <<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This morning...after a night of calm reflection...caused by one of the most violent thunderstorms and floods of rain we have had in years, I popped down to the polling station and voted. In the UK one doesn't need any I.D. one just says ones name and address, the polling clerk ticks the name on a list, a numbered ballot paper is handed over, the number of the ballot paper is recorded on the ballot list, and then goes off to cast ones vote in secret at the ballot box. After filling it in, one duly deposits the folded paper into a numbered ballot box, supervised by a ballot box attendant and...it is all tickety boo, ready for the next citizen to participate. The ballot box was made of canvas and sealed, and when the paper was deposited, a flap made it difficult to get the paper back out again. There were no police in attendance...after all we are British, no one outside wanting to collect our polling card and ask which way we voted, and there was a steady dribble of people, mostly senior citizens.

After the polls are closed the ballot papers are taken, under seal and the watchful eye of the Head Polling Clark to the nearest counting station, where they are brought in and opened by counting clerks under the watchful eyes of representatives of the main political parties, and then they are counted. In the case of a referendum, I don't know if there will be watchful eyes from the political parties, or who it is that will challenge any ballot papers which have been filled our wrongly or are of doubtful clarity...apart from the elections officers. That will be an interesting one to find out. The United Nations committee on such matters, reckons that the UK has one of the worst voting systems in the world...worse than any 3rd world country, ever since Tony Blair changed it so that there could be polling stations in the likes of Tescos and where it was made a lot easier for postal voting to take place. It is reckoned that around one third of votes take place through the postal vote and they have all been done weeks ago, so the main campaign has little or no influence on those votes. The results will be decided on those who vote today, particularly that 10% or so, the ones, like me, who kept their options open until the moment of casting.

It was so easy, I am wondering why this is the first time I have voted in years...must have been some reason...the lesser of two evils perhaps, or the evil of two lessers. We have two methods of voting in the UK, one is secret ballot by post, where the householder can send in the ballot papers for everyone in the house, the other is by attendance at the secret ballot. We also have two selection methods in UK elections, the general election is done by the "first past the post" system, which produces a majority in a constituency, but has led to minority governments being elected since the end of the Second World War, and we have a proportional representation system, which allows UKIP to get European M.P.s elected to the European Union. As the referendum has no candidates, and only one question with two answers, first past the post will win...No gradiated answers here...like how keen I am on saying yes or no, on a grade up to 10, or room for alternative kinds of European Union, like a common market and not a European Super State...

Yougov, of which I am a member, a most respected pollster in the UK, which is why I am a member, plus they give you points for every piece of your nakedness that you reveal, and points mean prizes...£50 for 5000 points which one gets roughly every 5 years....composed of experts in polling systems, and people from the BBC and getting results which are reasonably accurate (apart from the last general election) sent me an email last night asking if I was voting, at roughly what time in the day I will be voting, and how I will be voting. The reason they wanted to know, was so that they could beat everyone else by sending me another email after I have voted to confirm that I had voted, so coming up with the result, one way or the other, before anyone else does...and even before the polling has ended...except they won't be able to publish it, due to a forbidding clause in the Representation of the People Act 1948, as amended blah blah blah. Good ole computers and clever use of them and clever marketing are all the play today, saves on people standing out in the thundering rain, collecting individual responses, in the thousands of polling stations around the country...Nuffink like having efficient computers. We will become a First World country soon, getting electronic voting, just like the US of A...but not quite yet...problem of trust, apparently...:-).

And which way did I vote...I bet you are all wanting to know...:-). No, non, nein, and nyet.

Tattybye for now.


P.S. I reckon that Remain will win, by 58% to 43%.

P.P.S And, just for the crack, seeing as we are all experts in deception on this mailing list...apart from each other...of course...where honesty, sincerity and accurate non-selective information dominates... Did you know that 5 eyes are unanimous that for reasons of security and intelligence in the western world, it is better that the UK remains a member. And where did that come from...some classified, secret document....No,no, no. The big yin, the top dog of the the leader of the Scottish Conservative Party revealed that wee gem. Up until lately, I think she was the only member of the Scottish Conservative Party...but things will change...

On 22/06/2016 12:35, Joe Products wrote:
I am for Remain.

---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: John Young <mailto:jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx><jya@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Komu: <mailto:cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Datum: 22. 6. 2016 12:44:02
Předmět: [cryptome] Re: Brexit v Bremain: EU Referendum 2016

It has been argued that the smaller the government the better, and conversely,
the larger the worse.

The few who most benefit from larger are adamant about its necessity. And
will go to war -- police, civil, global -- to protect the top of the pyramid.

And will empower spies, police, military, justice, to do what is necessary
to protect the privileged few inside and outside government.

And conspire with other pyramid tops to assure their perpetuation.

And will enforce pyramid top policies upon smaller by whatever means
are necessary: military, propaganda, education, bribery, coercion,
insurrection, revolution.

And will legislate laws to justify perpetuation and criminalize opposition,
and condone whatever means are necessary.

And will squander societal, economic and physical resources in the
name of "national security," a euphemism for larger government's
pyramid topism.

And will propound the notion that enlightened, benevolent leadership
is essential for peace, security and civilization, while demonstrating
as necessary the murderous mass brutality to suppress opposition
at home and abroad, in consort with other like-minded, heavily
armed pyramid tops.

Statements like this assure placement in a dossier of opposition.
So it must be said, this is only a means to seduce others to hang

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