Dear All
I cant help myself, I have to add my twopence worth. some of my reasons why I
dont attend workshops, just three reasons. 1: cost in financial terms; 2: my
precious time is costed now that I work 8 days per fortnight including every
second saturday and 3: I found the process quite habit forming.
In my first representation I was initially embarrassed by the tears I felt
pricking my eyes that then spilled over as I was representing someone, I felt
such a foolish person for example.
This crying occurred a number of times throughout the workshop. Later on, about
a year later I realised some of these tears were for me, they were mine (at
least that was how I was able to make sense of some of the emotion that stayed
close to my "heart") other tears I realise didnt belong to me, they were
someone elses. I was just the vessel for them.
Some emotions were alien to me, I was able to observe these during the
constellation and later with a lot of curiosity. I believe they have helped me
in my current work as an Addictions counsellor to understand some of the
presentations/emotions of the AOD misusers and Gamblers I speak with.
They also help me understand what it is like as a significant other of those
with AOD and Gambling behaviour. The process of being a representative has
assisted me to 'know' about what it is like to look on and feel something for
or about another knowing at the same time I and my clients are feeling helpless
in making that person change.
Some of these experiences have changed me over the years helping me deal with
stuff I didnt know I carried.
I found the experiences to be very very very addictive, maybe I am a good
channeller(?) I am able to know that I am not the person I am representing even
though what I am experiencing are alien emotions. I dont think I have
explained that very well. Anyway, there is a part of me wanting to do this
again and again. I will just become one of my clients, another person who has
become enthralled with their habit.
Thus this ties in with cost. I cannot afford the time and finances required to
participate. However I tell other people about the constellations, I email
workshop details to other people, I know they could probably benefit from
exploring anothers issue if like me they are not ready to hold their own
constellation. I dont know if they have attended, that is not mine to know.
I have experienced a few horrible emtions and been part of some pretty nasty
constellations. Have these also affected me, I would say yes, have these also
helped me to work through and or understand some of my own stuff, I would say
yes.
Before I finish, maybe another reason why people are not ready or willing or
whatever to attend constellation workshops could be to do with the spiritual
(not religious) aspects of these, (I refer back to my channelling comment) of
experiencing a "someone else's" emotions and having that explained to them. It
just sounds too weird to be true....and is until you experience it.
cheers
Irene
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 12:11:11 +1100
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] suffering from representatives
Dear Dan
I am sorry to say you have made a basic logical error that when A and B occur
together that A must cause B. The ancient Greeks identified this error of logic
over 2000 years ago. Just because some people don't like representing doesn't
mean it has anything to do with low workshop numbers. In fact I am proud of the
fact that many people only come to two workshops but then encourage their
friends to come. That is simply because they have got what they needed. I am
very happy not to foster unnecessary dependence. Indeed causes for low numbers
at workshops are many and varied . For example:
The fact that our culture is in the thrall of the cult of the individual
People don't like giving up their precious spare time
Even though workshop are usually fascinating and enriching they can be
exhausting
It is almost impossible to properly explain this works to someone who has not
experienced
The lack of recognition of our field
There are many more and perhaps we should consider that the field of
constellation work may not be ready yet for large numbers. The field may have
more maturing to do first.
But I think that people being wary of representing is marginal in it's affect,
Each of the points above makes a much larger contribution to that problem.
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9487 4647
www.cwalsh.com.au
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 3:01 AM, Dan Booth Cohen, PhD <danboothcohen@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Chris –
Reflecting on your thought that the reluctance of most people to represent has
been overstated, if the majority of people are keen to represent, then we would
expect attendance at Constellation workshops to grow. People would return again
and again to groups and they would bring friends and loved ones to stand in
representation. From a monthly group of 12 workshop participants, in a year’s
time, the facilitator could expect to have 20 people attending twice-a-month
groups. After 5 years, they would be having weekly workshops and students from
their training programs would be having regular monthly groups.
Fifteen years after Hellinger introduced Constellations in English speaking
countries this is far from the reality. Many of our most senior facilitators
have only monthly groups. Many others have left the scene because too few
people attend group workshops to make working as a facilitator sustainable. The
situation is different in Non-English speaking countries.
Chris, if your sample is people in a group workshop, then I agree that the
majority are keen to represent. But if you look at the broader sample of people
who are invited who decline, those who attend one or two workshops and then
stop, and how many participants return with friends and loved-ones, it supports
my view that the majority of people are not keen to stand in another’s painful
field.
I am not meaning to be discouraging or depressing. In my view, the
Constellation experience remains the most potent, beneficial and cost-effective
therapeutic modality available. In terms of how good they are, my high
aspirations keep being confirmed and exceeded. However, I feel that the classic
way of delivering them is an unsurmountable barrier to their becoming widely
available. There are many effective and efficient ways to provide the healing
experience of a Constellation besides personal therapy in a group setting. Our
dependence on the willingness of a group of strangers to pay money and devote a
day to standing as representatives in other strangers’ Constellations is a big
obstacle.
The answers provided in this thread to Meike’s patient’s question are all
valid. And still, the majority of people when provided with these answers will
say, “No thank you.” What makes most sense to me is offer Constellations to
people who want them; representatives optional.
Dan
Family Constellations Intensive in Ireland
http://hiddensolution.com/ai1ec_event/eire2014/?instance_id=176
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Walsh
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:30 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] suffering from representatives
I agree Heike,
In my workshops & all the workshops and trainings I have attended, the majority
of people are actually keen to represent. While I believe the reluctance and
fear does exist, I also think it has been overstated in some of the posts over
the last few days
Cheers
Chris Walsh
Melbourne, Australia
ph +61 (0)3 9487 4647
www.cwalsh.com.au
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Heiki Eesmaa <heiki.eesmaa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Very interesting thread! I didn't even realize so many people had some
adversity towards representing, somehow it hasn't ever been a problem.
Even contrary to adversity, much of the times even people without training in
energy work experience strong vital energy movements. Movements of the Soul can
be quite similar to Spontaneous Movement Qigong.
all the best
Heiki
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Janice Crawford <jcrawford4000@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I particularly liked Chris's suggestion. And in terms of anything additional,
it of course so much depends on what one sensed as a possible form of defense
against natural movements of love and service within this person. For example,
I wonder whether this client is someone with whom one might go a bit
scientific/logical? Perhaps speaking generally to those in the group who might
be having difficulty with understanding representing (vs. focused on him) about
empathy to both pain and pleasure being a naturally occurring quality in
infants - motor neurons, etc.,- that is too often injured by adulthood in many
of us. One might then gently question whether it would it be worth it to feel
some temporary discomfort as a representative if it also helps us more
pleasurably feel our own and others joy?
All the best from my igloo in New York City,
Jan Crawford
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Dan Booth Cohen, PhD <danboothcohen@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Dear Meike –
In my experience, very few people are willing to offer themselves to go through
the pain of another person. I agree with the responses you received, especially
Sheila’s and Zaquie’s. That is why I am always willing to represent. However,
for most people, it is not something they want to do. For me, a good day is
when I can stand as a women’s sexually abusive grandfather, then as another
women’s kidney disease, and finally represent a man whose children won’t speak
to him. It heals and enriches me. …And, it’s not to everyone’s taste.
When I was in Norway this fall, I worked with a group of older men with
prostate cancer. The concept of standing in representation and allowing another
man’s hidden family soul to fill their awareness was entirely foreign to them.
They found the suggestion inappropriate and distasteful. Who is this crazy
doctor from America and what he is asking us to do?
The answer I have found is that very few people want to offer themselves in
this way. This is why I prefer to do personal Constellations in a 2-way or
3-way format. When I work with groups, my preference is that those who attend
are coming for a group experience built on ceremony and conceptual
Constellations.
Dan
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Maria Goossens
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:47 AM
To: constellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] suffering from representatives
Hi,
One of my patients looked from the outside of the circle to a constellation and
wondered why representatives offer themselves to go through the pain of another
patient. I couldn't give a right answer. Six days later he repeats this same
question. Again, I wasn't able to answer correctly.
Has anyone an answer on this question ?
Thanks,
Mieke
Maria Goossens, MD
www.dokter-goossens.be
goossens.maria@xxxxxxxxxx
