Doctors and lawyers, unless they’re working in the free clinics or for legal
aid are most definitely not considered middle class…the rest of what you say is
an exposee of how you see the world and can’t be argued with for that reason,
but that statement about doctors and lawyers being middle class is inaccurate
…just ask the doctors and lawyers themselves, their patients and clients, their
neighbors, and see what the consensus is...
On Jul 21, 2015, at 10:50 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Like I have said, when you use a word or phrase to mean everything it means
nothing and when everyone calls themselves middle class then middle class
means nothing too. The trouble with that phrase, though, is that it never
really meant much in the first place. Literally, I suppose it is somewhere in
between upper and lower, but then you have to specify where one class ends
and another begins and by what criteria you are doing the measuring. The
terms upper and lower don't mean much either. If you want to talk about
classes then to do so with some kind of real meaning you have to use terms
that actually describe the role of the classes you are talking about in the
economic system you are talking about. With all that said, though, I will
have to admit that I have a very strong personal distaste for that term
middle class. Virtually every time I have heard the term being used it has
been used to derogate me and the people I associate with by reassuring that
person who is using it that they are better than us. The vast majority of
people I have ever known do not refer to themselves as part of any class in
normal conversation. If the conversation turns in a direction that they have
to call themselves something they will usually say working people or poor
people. The few who call themselves middle class, though, do not have to have
the conversation turn in a direction such that they will have to identify
their class. They make a point of telling you that they are middle class to
be sure that you will not mistake them for one of you. Added to that, all of
these obnoxious bourgeois politicians are constantly talking about what they
are going to do for the middle class as if the vast majority of us do not
even exist. When Joe Biden came to Charleston a whole lot of poor people
turned out for his speech. I know a lot of them. His speech consisted of
middle class this and middle class that through the whole thing. Did he even
have the slightest idea how much he was turning off his audience. I really
did hear at least two people say that they were convinced that he didn't care
a thing about us because all he cared about was middle class people and in
that context the phrase middle class was used with a bit of a sneer.
Traditionally the phrase middle class refers to the professional class, that
is, doctors, lawyers and the like. Among most of my acquaintances those
people are usually referred to as rich people, not middle class people. That
is, of course, inaccurate, but it is the term that is used. There are two
neighborhoods in Charleston that mainly consist of those types. They are
South Hills and Edgewood Drive. There are other such neighborhoods, but it is
those two that are normally referred to by the most of the people I am
acquainted with as snobville or where those rich people live. By the way,
John D. Rockefeller owns a house in South Hills, so I suppose there really
are some rich people there, except that Rockefeller does not really live
there. He only bought the house to officially maintain a West Virginia
residence so that he could be senator. South Hills was about as low as I
think he would ever be likely to go even if he didn't have to live there
though.
On 7/21/2015 11:23 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
When Carl and Roger talk about this, they ar using a Marxist framework in
which class definitions are very specific. You are using the terms in the
way most Americans use them. But it is also true that blue collar workers
have been referring to themselves as middle class, probably ever since they
moved to the suburbs, owned one or more cars, and a color TV. Corporations'
advertising has sold everyone on the fantasy that they are similar to the
rich which is why so many former Democrats voted for Reagan. Was it in the
eighties that all these people began taking cruises? Everyone purchased this
1 week fantasy of opulence. One or two thousand people crowded onto a ship,
the majority in tiny windowless cabins, with fancy looking public rooms and
unlimited food of mediocre quality on the less expensive cruises and now, on
almost all of them, and nightly entertainment. And each day, they stop at a
port and are shepherded in huge groups to places where they can buy things.
And they all think they're doing what the rich do.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:16 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
I also think there is significant overlap.many working class people are
also middle class, and conversely, many middle class people are
simultaneously working class. Socially and economically, I don't see the two
as mutually exclusive, Under certain circumstances, they seem to be two
different terms that describe the same thing. Maybe it's a slant in one
direction or another, and the accusation leveled that many middle class
people think calling themselves middle class somehow elevates them above the
people they might call working class and look down on is certainly true in
some cases, but some people always feel they have to look down on somebody,
and I don't think this is characteristic of all or even many denizens of the
middle class . I certainly know and have known in the past, many so-called
middle class neighborhoods that are populated by people who hold jobs
considered to be working class, not white collar.
And of course this kind of gray area does not exist between let's say upper
and working class.
Alice
On Jul 20, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It may have something to do with the fact that his background is
working
class. His family was Jewish, working class, and he grew up in
Brooklyn.
He's a bit younger than I am, but our childhood experiences are
probably
similar. One doesn't forget that, unless one puts forth a lot of
effort to
do so.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger
Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 3:18 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to
the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
There is at least one point in favor of Sanders. He, at least, gives
lip
service to working people instead of assuming that the so-called
middle
class is the only class of people worth addressing.
On 7/20/2015 2:33 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
________________________________________
Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,
Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that
American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in contrast
to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'
crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of working
people."
Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care, this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years
successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second World
War.
Watch the video of Sanders' address below:
In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a
progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics. In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.
Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on
Twitter.
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5]
[6]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,
Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that
American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in contrast
to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'
crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of working
people."
Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care, this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years
successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second World
War.
Watch the video of Sanders' address below:
In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a
progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics. In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.
Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on
Twitter.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5] Error!
Hyperlink reference not valid.[6]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
