You know, I recently finished a very entertaining novel called Crazy Rich
Asians. It was somewhat satirical and it wasn't exactly fine literature. But
it was fun to read and it made a valid point that some of us forget when we
talk about rich people, I suppose because to many of us, rich means private
school or affluent neighborhoods. But private schools vary widely from each
other, as do affluent neighborhoods. This book describes the top few
percentages of wealth. The people are, in this case, Asian, and they live in
Singapore although they travel to various places. The scale on which they
live is unimaginable to us and none of us have known people who live like
that. Well, actually, I met one or two in Manhattan when I was doing my home
studies: the President of Time/Life Corporation and Mort Zuckerman who ran,
and probably still runs, a huge publishing empire. But to give one tiny
example, the women would buy dresses that cost $275,000 each without a
qualm. People like that with lifestyles that are so lavish that we can't
even aspire to them, make my son-in-law who is so proud of his house because
it is larger than the houses of his friends, and who revels in having an
inground heated swimming pool, look like a fool because he thinks he's one
of them.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:57 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
That's what I said.lawyers who work for legal aid, doctors who work in
clinics that serve the poor and poor neighborhoods, the family gp in a rural
area, and other examples, I only named a couple of examples, might be middle
class, but many, if not most, doctors and lawyers, dentists, surgeons,
specialists, lawyers who work for big and/or prestigious firms or bill $400
an hour are not middle class, they don't live in middle class neighborhoods,
their kids go to private schools, they belong to the country clubs, and so
on. No, it is not true of all doctors and lawyers, but I think generally or
traditionally, these and similar professions fall into the upper class.
Obviously, the boundaries are not crisp here, unless some kind of income
limits would be arbitrarily assigned, but if you look at life style, income,
etc., I do think this holds generally true.
On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
They're not middle class? Well, some of them are rich, I suppose.
But some
aren't. Certainly some lawyers aren't. It depends on what kind of
practise
they have. How to you categorize them?
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice
Dampman
Humel
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 9:19 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to
the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
Doctors and lawyers, unless they're working in the free clinics or
for legal
aid are most definitely not considered middle class.the rest of what
you say
is an exposee of how you see the world and can't be argued with for
that
reason, but that statement about doctors and lawyers being middle
class is
inaccurate .just ask the doctors and lawyers themselves, their
patients and
clients, their neighbors, and see what the consensus is...
On Jul 21, 2015, at 10:50 PM, Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Like I have said, when you use a word or phrase to mean everything
it means nothing and when everyone calls themselves middle class
then middle
class means nothing too. The trouble with that phrase, though, is
that it
never really meant much in the first place. Literally, I suppose it
is
somewhere in between upper and lower, but then you have to specify
where one
class ends and another begins and by what criteria you are doing the
measuring. The terms upper and lower don't mean much either. If you
want to
talk about classes then to do so with some kind of real meaning you
have to
use terms that actually describe the role of the classes you are
talking
about in the economic system you are talking about. With all that
said,
though, I will have to admit that I have a very strong personal
distaste for
that term middle class. Virtually every time I have heard the term
being
used it has been used to derogate me and the people I associate with
by
reassuring that person who is using it that they are better than us.
The
vast majority of people I have ever known do not refer to themselves
as part
of any class in normal conversation. If the conversation turns in a
direction that they have to call themselves something they will
usually say
working people or poor people. The few who call themselves middle
class,
though, do not have to have the conversation turn in a direction
such that
they will have to identify their class. They make a point of telling
you
that they are middle class to be sure that you will not mistake them
for one
of you. Added to that, all of these obnoxious bourgeois politicians
are
constantly talking about what they are going to do for the middle
class as
if the vast majority of us do not even exist. When Joe Biden came to
Charleston a whole lot of poor people turned out for his speech. I
know a
lot of them. His speech consisted of middle class this and middle
class that
through the whole thing. Did he even have the slightest idea how
much he was
turning off his audience. I really did hear at least two people say
that
they were convinced that he didn't care a thing about us because all
he
cared about was middle class people and in that context the phrase
middle
class was used with a bit of a sneer. Traditionally the phrase
middle class
refers to the professional class, that is, doctors, lawyers and the
like.
Among most of my acquaintances those people are usually referred to
as rich
people, not middle class people. That is, of course, inaccurate, but
it is
the term that is used. There are two neighborhoods in Charleston
that mainly
consist of those types. They are South Hills and Edgewood Drive.
There are
other such neighborhoods, but it is those two that are normally
referred to
by the most of the people I am acquainted with as snobville or where
those
rich people live. By the way, John D. Rockefeller owns a house in
South
Hills, so I suppose there really are some rich people there, except
that
Rockefeller does not really live there. He only bought the house to
officially maintain a West Virginia residence so that he could be
senator.
South Hills was about as low as I think he would ever be likely to
go even
if he didn't have to live there though.
On 7/21/2015 11:23 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
When Carl and Roger talk about this, they ar using a Marxist
framework in
which class definitions are very specific. You are using the
terms in the
way most Americans use them. But it is also true that blue
collar workers
have been referring to themselves as middle class, probably
ever since they
moved to the suburbs, owned one or more cars, and a color
TV. Corporations'
advertising has sold everyone on the fantasy that they are
similar to the
rich which is why so many former Democrats voted for Reagan.
Was it in the
eighties that all these people began taking cruises?
Everyone purchased this
1 week fantasy of opulence. One or two thousand people
crowded onto a ship,
the majority in tiny windowless cabins, with fancy looking
public rooms and
unlimited food of mediocre quality on the less expensive
cruises and now, on
almost all of them, and nightly entertainment. And each
day, they stop at a
port and are shepherded in huge groups to places where they
can buy things.
And they all think they're doing what the rich do.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:16 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His
Populism to the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
I also think there is significant overlap.many working
class people are
also middle class, and conversely, many middle class people
are
simultaneously working class. Socially and economically, I
don't see the two
as mutually exclusive, Under certain circumstances, they
seem to be two
different terms that describe the same thing. Maybe it's a
slant in one
direction or another, and the accusation leveled that many
middle class
people think calling themselves middle class somehow
elevates them above the
people they might call working class and look down on is
certainly true in
some cases, but some people always feel they have to look
down on somebody,
and I don't think this is characteristic of all or even many
denizens of the
middle class . I certainly know and have known in the past,
many so-called
middle class neighborhoods that are populated by people who
hold jobs
considered to be working class, not white collar.
And of course this kind of gray area does not exist between
let's say upper
and working class.
Alice
On Jul 20, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It may have something to do with the fact that his
background is
working
class. His family was Jewish, working class, and he grew up
in
Brooklyn.
He's a bit younger than I am, but our childhood experiences
are
probably
similar. One doesn't forget that, unless one puts forth a
lot of
effort to
do so.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Roger
Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 3:18 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His
Populism to
the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd
There is at least one point in favor of Sanders. He, at
least, gives
lip
service to working people instead of assuming that the
so-called
middle
class is the only class of people worth addressing.
On 7/20/2015 2:33 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
________________________________________
Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,
Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that
American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in contrast
to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'
crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of working
people."
Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care, this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years
successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second World
War.
Watch the video of Sanders' address below:
In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a
progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics. In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.
Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on
Twitter.
Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5]
[6]
________________________________________
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,
Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that
American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in contrast
to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'
crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of working
people."
Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care, this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years
successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second World
War.
Watch the video of Sanders' address below:
In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a
progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics. In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.
Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on
Twitter.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5] Error!
Hyperlink reference not valid.[6]
Source URL:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]
http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
