[blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd

  • From: Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:14:45 -0400

What I'm trying to say is that people do not use language precisely in the
same way that you do. And they see the world through an emotional lens. And
politicians understand that. When politicians talk about the middle class
more than about working people, it's because they know that a majority of
Americans see themselves as middle class. Whether people's definitions of
themselves are academically correct is beside the point. They will vote
based on their perceptions of who they are and what their best interests
are. If a politician or a community organizer is trying to reach them, it is
counterproductive to insist that they are working class if they refuse to
accept that self definition. The analogy is the true story of the social
worker at I H B who called a new client who had been recently classified as
legally blind in order to tell him about the services for which he was now
eligible. She began by introducing herself and telling him that he was now
classified as blind by the Commission for the Blind and she wanted to tell
him about how IHB could be of help to him. I was in the next office to her's
and I heard her side of the phone convrsation which was something like this.
"Yes Mr. Jones, you are blind. That's why we have your name. Well, perhaps
you can see a little but, nevertheless you are blind. Well, your doctor says
that you are. Look, if your doctor says that you are blind then you are.
Yes, you are so..." etc.

Miriam

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:43 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd

Well, if she thinks she is middle class then that is another example of how
a word or phrase that means everything means nothing. What is the point of
even using the phrase if you include everyone?

On 7/22/2015 9:13 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:

Well Roger, First of all, I think that you're describing a regional
phenomonon. In the urban and suburban northeast, lots and lots of
people identify themselves as middle class. The person who cleaned my
house and whose husband was a maintenance man for the NYC school
system, insisted that she was middle class. When she wasn't cleaning
houses, she was working as a waitress in a chain restaurant where she
earned $4 an hour plus tips. Her house was on the verge of being
foreclosed because of all of the loans on it that she'd taken out and
couldn't repay. Ssecond, although you have the feelings about the term
that you have, not everyone who refers to themselves as middle class
is doing it because they feel superior to you or to other people. Some
people refer to themselves as middle class because they think their income
or their job or their lifestyle, define them as middle class.
They think that because of what they read and what they see on TV.

Miriam

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:50 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to
the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd

Like I have said, when you use a word or phrase to mean everything it
means nothing and when everyone calls themselves middle class then
middle class means nothing too. The trouble with that phrase, though,
is that it never really meant much in the first place. Literally, I
suppose it is somewhere in between upper and lower, but then you have
to specify where one class ends and another begins and by what criteria
you are doing the measuring.
The terms upper and lower don't mean much either.
If you want to talk about classes then to do so with some kind of real
meaning you have to use terms that actually describe the role of the
classes you are talking about in the economic system you are talking
about. With all that said, though, I will have to admit that I have a
very strong personal distaste for that term middle class. Virtually
every time I have heard the term being used it has been used to
derogate me and the people I associate with by reassuring that person who
is using it that they are better than us.
The vast majority of people I have ever known do not refer to
themselves as part of any class in normal conversation. If the
conversation turns in a direction that they have to call themselves
something they will usually say working people or poor people. The few
who call themselves middle class, though, do not have to have the
conversation turn in a direction such that they will have to identify
their class. They make a point of telling you that they are middle
class to be sure that you will not mistake them for one of you. Added
to that, all of these obnoxious bourgeois politicians are constantly
talking about what they are going to do for the middle class as if the
vast majority of us do not even exist. When Joe Biden came to
Charleston a whole lot of poor people turned out for his speech. I
know a lot of them. His speech consisted of middle class this and
middle class that through the whole thing. Did he even have the
slightest idea how much he was turning off his audience. I really did
hear at least two people say that they were convinced that he didn't
care a thing about us because all he cared about was middle class
people and in that context the phrase middle class was used with a bit of
a sneer. Traditionally the phrase middle class refers to the professional
class, that is, doctors, lawyers and the like.
Among most of my acquaintances those people are usually referred to as
rich people, not middle class people.
That is, of course, inaccurate, but it is the term that is used. There
are two neighborhoods in Charleston that mainly consist of those types.
They are South Hills and Edgewood Drive. There are other such
neighborhoods, but it is those two that are normally referred to by
the most of the people I am acquainted with as snobville or where
those rich people live. By the way, John D. Rockefeller owns a house
in South Hills, so I suppose there really are some rich people there,
except that Rockefeller does not really live there. He only bought the
house to officially maintain a West Virginia residence so that he
could be senator. South Hills was about as low as I think he would
ever be likely to go even if he didn't have to live there though.

On 7/21/2015 11:23 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
When Carl and Roger talk about this, they ar using a Marxist
framework in which class definitions are very specific. You are using
the terms in the way most Americans use them. But it is also true
that blue collar workers have been referring to themselves as middle
class, probably ever since they moved to the suburbs, owned one or
more cars, and
a color TV. Corporations'
advertising has sold everyone on the fantasy that they are similar to
the rich which is why so many former Democrats voted for Reagan. Was
it in the eighties that all these people began taking cruises?
Everyone purchased this
1 week fantasy of opulence. One or two thousand people crowded onto a
ship, the majority in tiny windowless cabins, with fancy looking
public rooms and unlimited food of mediocre quality on the less
expensive cruises and now, on almost all of them, and nightly
entertainment. And each day, they stop at a port and are shepherded
in
huge groups to places where they can buy things.
And they all think they're doing what the rich do.

Miriam

________________________________

From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice
Dampman Humel
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:16 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to
the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd


I also think there is significant overlap.many working class people
are also middle class, and conversely, many middle class people are
simultaneously working class. Socially and economically, I don't see
the two as mutually exclusive, Under certain circumstances, they seem
to be two different terms that describe the same thing. Maybe it's a
slant in one direction or another, and the accusation leveled that
many middle class people think calling themselves middle class
somehow elevates them above the people they might call working class
and look down on is certainly true in some cases, but some people
always feel they have to look down on somebody, and I don't think
this is characteristic of all or even many denizens of the middle
class . I certainly know and have known in the past, many so-called
middle class neighborhoods that are populated by people who hold jobs
considered to be
working class, not white collar.
And of course this kind of gray area does not exist between let's say
upper and working class.
Alice

On Jul 20, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

It may have something to do with the fact that his background is
working
class. His family was Jewish, working class, and he grew up in
Brooklyn.
He's a bit younger than I am, but our childhood experiences are
probably
similar. One doesn't forget that, unless one puts forth a lot of
effort to
do so.

Miriam

-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger
Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 3:18 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to
the Red
States and Draws Huge Crowd

There is at least one point in favor of Sanders. He, at least, gives

lip
service to working people instead of assuming that the so-called
middle
class is the only class of people worth addressing.

On 7/20/2015 2:33 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:



Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
________________________________________
Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,
Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he
spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic
Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half
of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him
took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest
in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that

American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in
contrast


to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'


crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his
speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when
he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of
working


people."


Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think
my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while
some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care,
this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years

successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second
World


War.


Watch the video of Sanders' address below:

In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by
Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a

progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics.
In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I
am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.

Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on


Twitter.


Share on Facebook Share
Share on Twitter Tweet
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5]
[6]
________________________________________
Source URL:

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B

Published on Alternet (http://www.alternet.org) Home >
Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd

Bernie Sanders Takes His Populism to the Red States and
Draws Huge
Crowd By Zaid Jilani [1] / AlterNet [2] July 19, 2015 Today,

Sanders
took his Southwestern tour to Dallas and Houston. In Dallas,
he
spoke
to nearly 10,000 people. The senator condemned the
Democratic
Party's
political strategy in the South, saying that it has
"conceded half
of
the states in the national level." He said that when
"childhood
poverty in Texas is 27 percent, we've gotta take it on. When
34
percent of people living in Texas have no health insurance,
we've
gotta take it on." The people sitting in the bleachers
behind him
took
to their feet to applaud when he said it makes more sense to
invest
in
"jobs and education" rather than "incarceration," something
that
has
become a feature of his stump speech.
Sanders' speech in Phoenix on Saturday night brought
together an
estimated eleven to twelve thousand people - one of the
largest
political rallies in the city's history (by comparison
Barack Obama
got 13,000 in January 2008 [3]). The crowd gave Sanders
standing
ovations at numerous points, such as when he condemned
police
violence, called for tuition-free college, and demanded that

American
provide for the veterans of its wars. It's worth noting
that, in
contrast


to Donald Trump's homogeneous audience, Sanders'


crowd was extremely diverse; there was heavy representation
of
young
Latinos, with one activist introducing the Senator before
his
speech.
Bernie is campaigning across the Southwest to show he has
broader
appeal than just the safe blue-state regions of the country.
It is an
echo of the swing through the South that Sanders did in
2013, when
he
was still considering his candidacy.
"I really strongly disagree with this concept that there's a
blue
state and red state America," he told In These Times in an
interview
that year. "I believe that in every state in the country the
vast
majority of the people are working people. These are people
who are
struggling to keep their heads above water economically,
these are
people who want Social Security defended, they want to raise
the
minimum wage, they want changes in our trade policy. And to
basically
concede significant parts of America, including the South,
to the
right-wing is to me not only stupid politics, but even worse
than
that-you just do not turn your backs on millions and
millions of
working


people."


Although the majority of the address in Phoenix was similar
to the
remarks the senator has given around the country, there were
a few
innovations. "God bless Pope Francis," he joked. "Some
people think
my
economic views are radical, you should check out this guy."
He also
ended his address on a note of optimism, pointing out that
while
some
may say this country can never have truly universal health
care,
this
is the same country that in the span of two and a half years

successfully defeated both the Germans and Japanese in the
Second
World


War.


Watch the video of Sanders' address below:
In Houston, Taylor Channing, a 25 year-old from Houston who
has
been
volunteering with his local Bernie Sanders group, was
thrilled by
Sanders'
visit.
"It's funny because whenever I found out the other day that
he was
coming to Houston, I mean it freaked out we weren't
expecting such
a
gift or such an early visit to one of the reddest states in
the
nation," he exclaimed. "I've never seen such a response to a

progressive campaign in my lifetime. I thought the response
I saw
to
Obama was huge but this is just, I mean it's just, it's
insane."
For Channing, this Southwestern tour is a sending a message
to the
entire country about the Bernie Sanders' attitude towards
politics.
In
his mind, Sanders is saying "I have no druthers about
showing up in
what is perceived to be a conservative bastion and just
being who I
am
and seeing how the people respond."
By the looks of the response in Phoenix and the expected
response
in
Texas Sunday evening, this strategy is working.
Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani
[4] on


Twitter.


Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.
Report typos and corrections to 'corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx'.
[5] Error!
Hyperlink reference not valid.[6]

Source URL:

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-takes-his-populis
m-red-
states-and-draws-huge-crowd
Links:
[1] http://www.alternet.org/authors/zaid-jilani-0
[2] http://alternet.org
[3]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/01/31/75657-obama-rally-draws-13-
000-in
-phx/
[4] https://twitter.com/zaidjilani
[5] mailto:corrections@xxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=Typo on Bernie
Sanders
Takes His Populism to the Red States and Draws Huge Crowd
[6]
http://www.alternet.org/ [7]
http://www.alternet.org/%2Bnew_src%2B
















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