Interesting, Sheri. So spending some time, like a few days or week with contacts or a tight blindfold or eyes shut, wouldn't give a sighted person the same experience, or at least something of an idea? I think there was an actor who did that to prepare for a role. I do find it difficult to imagine dreams without visuals, although I have a good imagination. But Louise and Allison have given me explanations that I begin to understand--sensations of where one is, like, as Louise said, where she used to live, and people's voices, and perhaps the sensation that someone is present. I think I can begin to understand. Perhaps it's a little like deja vu--when we have the feeling, even though awake and seeing something not related, what we've been in a place or a situation before. Cindy Cindy --- Sheri Wells-Jensen <swellsj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hi, Cindy, > > When ever I teach a class of creative writers, > there's always one student > who come sup to me after class to ask something > like: "What's it really like > to be you." I used to try to answer this question. > then, I realized it was > impossible. Now, I ask the student to explain what > it's like to be him/her > first. Before I can contrast my experience, I really > have to know what it's > really like experientially to perceive objects at a > distance and use that > experience as information about the environment and > act on that information > without conscious thought. I can't isolate any > 'real' difference between > sighted people's experience and my own > unless I know what two things I'm contrasting. I > don't think you can ask > someone who had significant sight and lost it either > since having had sight > would effect how you process information. > Maybe, there is some wayof perceiving reality that > all blind people share > that is fundamentally different than sighted > experience, but the older I > get, the more I doubt that. > If there really were some truly interesting > fundamental difference, we'd > have a lot more trouble getting along with you'all > than we usually do! > *smile* > My students, by the way, give up the task of > explaining *their* reality > pretty quickly! they're looking for something > exotic. I always feel just a > little sad to have to disappoint them! > > FWIW, > > Sheri W-J > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:21 PM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind > sight > > > > Thanks, Allison, for the info. > > > > Yes, I would not like to feel pain in my dreams. I > > don't think I feel in my dreams--except > occasionally > > emotions, which last for a while when I wake up. > And > > occasionally smells and sounds, but I think they > enter > > my dreams from the outside. > > > > Cindy > > > > --- Allison Mervis <allisonfm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > >> I dream entirely in sensation and sound. It's > like I > >> don't have to see in my > >> dreams in order to know where I'm going. I can > also > >> feel pain while > >> dreaming, and a lot of people I've talked to > can't. > >> Sometimes I wish I > >> couldn't. > >> Allison > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "mickey" <micka@xxxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:51 PM > >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind > >> sight > >> > >> > >> >I dream more in sounds, Cindy. When I was little > >> and could see more light, > >> >sometimes I'd see things like flame, but > whatever I > >> saw had to be bright. > >> >But I've heard people say something to me, and > it's > >> made me wake up. I also > >> >dream some in sensation. > >> > > >> > Some research has been done regarding sleep of > >> blind people. Some of us > >> > move our fingers in REM sleep, as you would > your > >> eyes. > >> > > >> > > >> > Mickey Prahin > >> > micka@xxxxxxxxxx > >> > MSN: mickeylundgren@xxxxxxxxxxx > >> > Phone: (614) 670-4011 > >> > Check out Bob's new CD at > >> > http://www.boballentrio.com > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; > >> <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:57 PM > >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] OT: Fwd: Fw: Blind > sight > >> > > >> > > >> >> This article relates, subject-wise, to one > that I > >> >> forwarded a while back--vision being given to > a > >> man > >> >> who was blind fo forty years, having lost his > >> sight at > >> >> age three. > >> >> > >> >> The article mentions dreams. I've wondered, > but > >> have > >> >> refrained from asking, what the dreams of > blind > >> people > >> >> are like. Does the brain create pictures and > >> shapes > >> >> from the various sensations you have during > the > >> day? I > >> >> hope you don't mind my asking. > >> >> > >> >> Cindy > >> >> > >> >> --- Louise <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> From: "Louise" <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>> To: "Louise Gourdoux" > >> <bookscanner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>> Subject: Fw: Blind sight > >> >>> Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:05:00 -0500 > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> The Guardian (UK) > >> >>> Wednesday, May 17, 2006 > >> >>> > >> >>> Blind sight > >> >>> > >> >>> By Sue Blackmore > >> >>> > >> >>> Restoring vision to the blind sounds like a > >> miracle > >> >>> - but for the patients > >> >>> in question, it can seem like a nightmare. > >> >>> > >> >>> What is it like for the blind to see again? > You > >> >>> might think it would be a > >> >>> delight, with the previously handicapped > person > >> >>> opening their eyes to a > >> >>> wondrous world of colour, depth, movement and > >> faces, > >> >>> and a new and better > >> >>> life. But that (if you are a normal seeing > >> person) > >> >>> is probably because you > >> >>> think of vision as an easy task for the brain > - > >> >>> after all, it seems so easy. > >> >>> > >> >>> This is far from the truth. In fact, vision > >> takes > >> >>> vast brain power and a lot > >> >>> of it is learned, so the newly-sighted have a > >> tough > >> >>> job on. And the few > >> >>> previously documented cases are mostly sad > >> stories > >> >>> of fear, depression, and > >> >>> even suicide. > >> >>> > >> >>> This week I was lucky enough to be invited, > >> along > >> >>> with a small group of > >> >>> vision scientists, to meet a blind man made > to > >> see - > >> >>> this time by the > >> >>> wonders of corneal stem cell transplantation. > >> Mike > >> >>> May, a Californian who > >> >>> became blind at the age of three, had his > sight > >> >>> restored in one eye over > >> >>> forty years later. One of the organisers was > >> Richard > >> >>> Gregory, who did > >> >>> classic research in the 1960s with patient, > SB. > >> >>> > >> >>> Our questions ranged from dreams and > imagination > >> to > >> >>> how to cope with traffic > >> >>> and sports, but among the most fascinating > >> things we > >> >>> learned was how > >> >>> overwhelming the visual world is for someone > who > >> is > >> >>> not used to it, and how > >> >>> much sighted people take for granted their > >> ability > >> >>> to ignore it. For Mike, > >> >>> looking out of his high up hotel window means > >> seeing > >> >>> the teeming cars as > >> >>> full size cars, while knowing that somehow he > >> ought > >> >>> to see them as smaller. > >> >>> He described the difference from his previous > >> world > >> >>> in which he knew the > >> >>> cars were there but was not bombarded with > >> details > >> >>> of colour, shape, number, > >> >>> and direction. > >> >>> > >> >>> Amazingly, Mike was an expert skier while > blind, > >> >>> following a guide who > >> >>> called out instructions. He described to us > the > >> joy > >> >>> of seeing mountains > >> >>> (when he could work out that was what he was > >> seeing) > >> >>> and the confusion of > >> >>> skiing with sight. Trees were dark and > obviously > >> to > >> >>> be avoided, but shadows > >> >>> were dark too, and hence very scary. It made > me > >> >>> reflect on how valuable is > >> >>> our ability not to be distracted by shadows. > >> Indeed > >> >>> he finds skiing and > >> >>> crossing the road more frightening with > vision > >> than > >> >>> he used to do without. > >> >>> > >> >>> He talked about synaesthesia too. While many > >> people > >> >>> see numbers or sounds as > >> >>> having their own colour, for Mike it was > Braille > >> >>> letters that were > >> >>> coloured - and, as he put it "people thought > I > >> was > >> >>> nuts". Most strange for > >> >>> him are faces which seem to have so much more > >> detail > >> >>> than he had expected > >> >>> from touching them all his life - but whether > he > >> >>> sees and recognises them in > >> >>> anything like the way normally sighted people > >> do, we > >> >>> could not tell. > >> >>> > >> >>> I realised how very difficult it is to ask > >> >>> meaningful questions and > >> >>> understand the answers when you are talking > to > >> >>> someone whose experience is > >> >>> so different from your own - and this is, of > >> course, > >> >>> what makes Mike so > >> >>> special. But should I go further? Perhaps I > >> should > >> >>> not be asking what it's > >> >>> like for the blind to see, but what it's like > >> for > >> >>> anyone to see. For > >> >>> scientists are far from agreement over this, > and > >> I > >> >>> have agonised about the > >> >>> nature of conscious vision for years. > >> >>> > >> >>> So look around you now. What is it like to > see? > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> > > > http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue_blackmore/2006/05/what_is_it_like_fo > >> >>> r_the_blind.html > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> >>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: > 268.6.0/342 - > >> >>> Release Date: 5/17/2006 > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > >> protection around > >> >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank > Email > >> to > >> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > >> subject line. To get a list > >> >> of available commands, put the word 'help' by > >> itself in the subject line. > >> >> > >> > > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank > Email > >> to > >> > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > >> subject line. To get a list > >> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by > >> itself in the subject line. > >> > > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email > to > >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > subject > >> line. To get a list of available commands, put > the > >> word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > >> > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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