Ok. I will run the talk through with 439.1 MHz on one side and the main net
frequency on the other.
Mike
On 5 Nov 2015, at 20:43, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"gladius650" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yes Gordon certainly do sir
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "MG Blueyonder" <mike.granatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 7:57 PM
I'd be happy to set up a talk through at my T Wells QTH. It might provide a
viable link from Wadhurst. Kevin - do you have a 70cm capability?
On 5 Nov 2015, at 19:21, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"gladius650" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yes a lot of earth between us, I can usually hear a few apart from my
interference.
I use a Watson W300 antenna, usually with my ID-5100 but will try the
FT-1900 next time Gordon..
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "Gordon Bubb" <gordonbubb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 6:48 PM
Kevin,
To Tonbridge Wadhurst is 16 Km and not a good path. If you use a hand held I
probably won't hear you but others should who have higher QTHs. I'm sure
Mark will come up with likely stations you could hear on monday nights.
Gordon
On 5 November 2015 at 18:37, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The name is Kevin and located in Wadhurst. I will try my dedicated 2 mtr
radio, after looking at the specs of filtering it may be an advantage to me
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "Gordon Bubb" <gordonbubb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 5:32 PM
Gladius650, sorry have missed your name somewhere along the line, thinking
of our nets, where are you located? This will give us an idea of whether
you can easily get into the net.
Will you be at Kempton this sunday?
Gordon
G7KNS
On 5 November 2015 at 17:29, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am not the only M6 that gets abuse, which is why they have returned to
their roots with 11 mtrs.
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "Mark Kent" <mark.antony.kent@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 5:15 PM
The West Kent nets are advertised every week, and M6s are always welcomed.
Why don’t you join one of them? The invitations are sent every week
onto the -announce list, so you should see them; this, at least, is
something where M6s are always invited.
I cannot speak for all licensed amateurs, but I have never heard any
on-air abuse on these nets.
In case you don’t have the details to hand, the target is 145.375 MHz, FM,
centre of gravity is Tunbridge Wells area, time is 2000hrs local time (so
GMT at the moment), and the day is Mondays, when it’s not a club night,
and lasts usually 1-2 hours depending on who is about.
73 Mark G8PHM
On 5 Nov 2015, at 15:34, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"gladius650" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As M6's we are inclined to look into things in great detail to prove our
worth to more experienced users, not necessarily the theory but the more
practical side of things, only to get put down because a-c=d doesn't
equate when we ask questions. Therefore I will only ask one person now
that will listen to both sides.
There is also a great deal of snobbery amoung full license operators,
while in seperate discussion groups we are never asked to join any group,
just left on the side line to twiddle our fingers, so we leave.
Because we feel honoured to hold a call sign, we tend to keep up what we
are taught at the time as announcing our call signs, then we are accused
of wasting time or even called proofs, pancies, tarts even down to making
comments that we must be child molesters, the excuse they must have been
drunk, doesn't wash with me.
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "Mark Kent" <mark.antony.kent@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 1:50 PM
Do you have a particular area you’d like to see improved? Or particular
examples where you think things might have been handled better?
Where there’s something specific to go on, it’s often easier to make some
kind of progress, and often, people don’t realise that they’re getting
something wrong, so a light hint can work wonders :-)
73 Mark G8PHM
On 5 Nov 2015, at 12:26, gladius650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Redacted sender
"gladius650" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Until the RSGP/OFCOM suppresses the arrogance towards new operators the
ingress to our hobby will remain static. Involving new operators into
conversations, and listening to their input will go a long way to
encouragement.. May I add a little light joviality also.
M6LVK
Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: "Mark Kent" <mark.antony.kent@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <wkars-members@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [wkars-members] Re: RSGB DRM UPDATE
Date: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 11:40 AM
[ I’ve re-attached my email so that the thread is not broken ] Comments
are inline:
Mark
That's a fascinating and telling analysis, and some of your conclusions
are pretty powerful. Thank you very much for sharing them. A couple
of thoughts:
1. The film Convoy was a huge boost because it showed CB radio as the
hero, a point reinforced by its use to thwart overweening authority.
The illegitimacy of CB here was a huge draw. I was at the Home Office
during CB's heyday, and handled all the public communication for radio
regulation at the time - and when we brought in MPT 1321 and legalised
CB, six magazines and a great number of equipment suppliers went out of
business almost overnight. Never underestimate the power of romantic
unlawfulness. Conclusion: we'll probably always be able to attract
technophiles, but if we want real growth, we need to be able to sell
fun in the broad philosophical sense you suggest. Raynet type
activities, demonstrating a public good and fun to boot, are an obvious
candidate.
Robin Hood was, eventually I believe, forgiven by the incoming regime!
Pirate radio, like computer hacking, continue to appeal to the ‘romantic
unlawfulness’ genetic drive which many young chaps seem to have. Part
of this, I think, is the perception of adventure falling outside of
normal experience, with the opportunity to act beyond accepted norms.
Once upon a time, the armed services, bizarrely perhaps, offered
something of the ‘Horatio Hornblower’ appeal [ see the original Star
Trek series for that in a more modernistic setting] , or indeed Blake’s
7 was described as ‘Robin Hood in space’.
So as you say, how do we loop Horatio Hornblower and Robin Hood into
Raynet..?
2. As an Whitehall hand, I think the RSGB has pitiful influence with
Ofcom.
We lost the moral standing that comes with a licence fee. We clearly
deal
with people low in the Ofcom food chain, when the real decisions are
made by the policy makers and legal people. The paucity of our reach
and importance is well illustrated by that new guidance document with
its poor drafting, non-sequiturs (see 2.79-2.82 for example) and
dreadful proof reading.
Yes, big mistake. I wonder if we should do something rather odd, that
being to campaign for the re-introduction of a licence fee in return for
some support? That’s something the RSGB could push or it could be done
independently.
3. The RSGB is an organisation bonded by a website and magazine, but
riven by different competing and often arrogant interests. It has
dozens of very good people all ploughing the field in different
directions. It reminds me a great deal of policing - the upper tiers
dominated by people who live off the experiences of their long-lost
younger days... (Hence my bleat for more kids, ASAP.). As a
consequence, it lacks any of the focus necessary to campaign for the
hobby. Raynet has a variant of the disease.
I get the point, but I think fixing the leadership by adding new
recruits will have a very long time-constant, probable several decades,
so it needs other, more immediate action, going into the mix as well, in
my view.
4. We need to sell amateur radio as an enabler, and a strategic good,
not just an end in itself. But that's where we both agree. And we
have to find better champions and partners than Ofcom. It's a
regulator, and an auctioneer, and we are a pimple on the hindquarters
of an elephant with no effect on its head or direction at all.
This is worth some further thought.
73 Mike
Indeed.. I’ve come around, by the way, to what the RSGB is perhaps
trying to achieve with the film. I’m still not convinced it’ll work,
but that’s a different question.
More immediately:
Answer the question "What is the RSGB for?" At the base level, it is a
social club, but that also has some of the responsibilities of a labour
union, or a professional association. The latter parts are about
representing the interests of its members.
Simple enough, but a much harder question is “What should the RSGB do?”
Clearly promotion of Amateur Radio is almost a given, as without that,
the RSGB ceases to exist. But it goes much further, out to properly
engaging with licensing authorities, and ensuring that it is the proper
voice of its membership. Recently, it seems to have allowed itself to
be pushed out of the way - this is clearly wrong and needs be fixed.
There is a very basic question, though, which is should Ofcom be
responsible for spectrum auctions at all? This is surely poacher turned
gamekeeper; the RSGB should be raising this question into MPs and
parliament, probably on the back of the educational value of amateur
radio in promoting UK PLC’s future in science and technology, something
everyone agrees the need for.
The responsibility for spectrum licensing should be taken from Ofcom,
or the responsibility for licensing radio usage, interference and such
like should be given to a separate body. That body should be charged
with protecting the interests of the UK’s scientific future through
defending essential educational spectrum from short-term commercial
exploitation.
Secondly, RSGB and Raynet both should be looking at the Horatio
Hornblower side; but that means a whole different approach, and must be
done *without* losing appeal to the traditional, self-selecting groups
(universities, schools, technicians, engineers, et cetera).
I wonder if the RSGB might considering getting together with its CEPT
country counterparts and see about funding some Scientific Arts as per
my previous note. There are countless examples of radio amateurs
providing unusual emergency comms, including the Falklands, the recent
Tsunamis, and of course the activities of Raynet. There’re also the
satellites, the FunCube thing, the space station. How about a story
which weaves all of this together?
Maybe I should try to write one :-)
================ <my previous note below> ===============
Mike et al, time for some analysis…
Facebook and social media
======================
Facebook’s biggest growth area is, and has been for some time, in older
people (> 34), so its quite likely that radio amateurs are going there.
It’s losing popularity amongst the youngsters, though.
For facebook:
http://www.slideshare.net/oreillymedia/facebook-demo-20090415 in 2009:
The UK had 18 million active users. The majority of users were 18-34,
majority growth for Europe was in the 45 to 65 year age range, but also
had a peak from 13-17, with most users being female. That is about 1 in
3 people.
Japan had 3.3 million active users. Asian user profile was similar to
Europe, except majority users male. That was about 1 in 50 people.
The US had 59.6 million active users. Americas user profile was similar
to Europe, majority of users female. That was about 1 in 5 people.
Facebook users are rapidly ‘getting older’, though, in 2014 :
http://investorplace.com/2014/02/facebook-users-demographics/#.Vjrc06IrNsM
US users are up to 180 million, threefold since 2009 report above, and
now approx. 1 in 2 people in the US. The biggest growth group is 55+ so
that would align with Radio Amateur populations, with biggest active
group 35-54 and the biggest fall in 18-24 years old.
It seems just as likely that Japanese people use alternative social
media, for example.
http://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/social-media-fast-facts-japan
suggests that the Japanese far prefer Twitter, and number an astonishing
9% of global users, but also that Facebook users have grown by 300% in
the last 3 years to 17 million, rather more than the 3.3 million
reported by O’Reilly, above. Also see
https://takeme2japan.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/social-media-in-japan/
which shows just how rapidly the trends move. In 2009, most Japanese
were using Mixi, but Facebook has rocketed since.
Radio Amateur numbers across the world
====================================
The numbers are interesting… according to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_operator, (see also IARU
figures at http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=13864,
http://www.n0hr.com/ham_radio_population.htm) we have
1,296,059 licensed amateurs in 1999 in Japan, which is 1.012% of the
population.
738,497 licensed amateurs in 2012 in the US, which is 0.239% of the
population. 15% of them are said to be female.
(Thailand, Korea, Germany, Taipei, Spain, then)...
58,426 licensed amateurs in 2000 in the UK, which is 0.094% of the
population. 8th largest in the world for licensed amateurs, or 11th
largest by %age of population (see the table below).
Also note 81,000 licences allocated according to this:
http://www.essexham.co.uk/news/ofcom-amateur-radio-licence-review.html
Global numbers
---------------------
According to the IARU figures, the number of licensed amateurs globally
has grown from
399,000 in 1965 to
2,789,720 in 2000
over that period, showing growth each year. I don’t know what’s
happened since, and 15 years is a long time, so perhaps it’s now going
the other way.
From the %age table well below, though, you can see that the UK is
actually reasonably well placed in Europe, in fact 5th.
The undisputed world champ, though, either way, is Japan. Hence I’d be
wondering why Japan is so amazingly far ahead of anywhere else in all
measures.
UK RAE pass figures, 1946 to 2003
============================
Historical view of UK RAE, 1946 to 2003:
http://www.g4dmp.co.uk/rae/raestats.pdf:
1946: 395 RAE passes (ex-military folk?)
1959: 1102 RAE passes (first year above 1000 - ex mil?)
1982: 8000 RAE passes (highest ever - post-CB boom)
1991: 3000 RAE passes (sight peak when Novice RAE introduced )
1997: 980 RAE passes (first year below 1000 since 1959)
2003: 652 RAE passes.
After that, the RSGB began to run the RAE, and figures seem quite hard
to find! So, does anyone know what the RAE pass figures are since 2003?
I cannot find them.
RSGB membership
================
This is interesting:http://www.rsgbcc.org/hf/minutes/March2014.pdf
suggests 1993 membership at 30,000 and 2013 membership at 21,500, which
does show that the RSGB is, perhaps, in trouble, but this might be more
representative of the post CB boom that anything else.
What caused the 1980s Amateur Radio boom?
====================================
The biggest ever injection of Radio Amateur Examination passes was, it
seems, from the ex-CB fraternity in the 1980s. This rather suggests
that making a film like Convoy -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd5ZLJWQmss might be the best possible
thing you could do. A large part of the appeal of CB was its edgy,
not-really-legal feel, along with the fantasy-lifestyle which went along
with the films, the E-type Jaguar, the CB jargon, and the feel-good,
go-nowhere story (I was never a CBer, btw, I was licensed before this).
So perhaps the RSGB is heading the in the right direction in some
respects! The key follow-up TV series was The Dukes of Hazzard,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qogVHlmFcx0 which again featured a
feel-good, slightly edgy, CB and road-based series of escapades,
interspersed with Daisy Duke’s (Catherine Bach's) eyebrow-raising
wardrobe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToEHObxHqI4.
If that weren’t enough, we also had Smokie and the Bandit - here is the
CB tutorial made to go with the film - see Burt Reynolds teach you US CB
talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwiAk2wjZo
Buford T Justice quotes from Smokie and the Bandit:
https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE
Analysis of the CB impact, and its cultural links
====================================
The biggest growth in amateur radio was as a direct consequence of
Hollywood lifestyle films, promoting a feel-good, slightly edgy, but
ultimately morally upright characters, taking on an establishment of
well intentioned, but ultimately corrupt figures. CB radio provides the
key mechanism through which the heroes and heroines communicate, using
special language and social networks which the establishment figures
understand, but are unable to effectively emulate.
The growth in illegal CB created a peak in demand for both better
performing radios and for more legitimacy amongst users in the UK. This
directly translated into a massive boost, around 8-fold growth, in
successful RAE candidates. The subsequent disappearance in CB-radio
derived television and film genre post 1980s, and its replacement with
weak 1990s US ‘comedy’ shows like Seinfeld, the Cosby Show providing
‘feel-good’ (if you liked them) and the more dystopian Family Guy and
South Park appealing to the more ‘edgy’ side of things, signalled the
end of this CB-driven cultural era.
The very utopian Star Trek spin-off series attracted some of the more
scientifically minded, whilst the beautifully written, cast and acted
Blake’s 7, with its dystopian themes, went the way of the CB film and TV
show.
In these 1990s+ televised utopian worlds, the technology generally ‘just
works’. Sub-cultures, such as the CB/Truckers world are generally
frowned upon, and rarely shown in any kind of positive light.
Scientists and engineers are typically characterised in several,
generally unflattering ways, which can include ‘sneering intellectual’,
‘troubled mad-man’, ‘amoral sociopath’, ‘socially inept figure of fun’.
Or, for the mainstream characters, they simply espouse a lot of
non-sensical jargon, whilst shoving their equivalent of the sonic
screwdriver into something with lots of flashing lights, which generally
starts to work after a couple of bashes, and the day is saved. This has
changed little since the 1990s, with current television shows
characterising scientific types as ‘talking nasally’ and ‘a bit dim
really’, and always characters to laugh at.
Education
========
Our education system is deeply biased against males. Presently, 50% of
females attend university, but only 38% of males, and by 2025, 70% of
undergraduates will be female according to the OECD:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/5459854/Girls-will-take-up-70-per-cent-of-university-places-says-new-study.html.
The beginning of this trend coincided exactly with the introduced of
GCSEs to replace O-levels in 1988, however, the trend towards
academically favouring females over males is representative in many
countries as well as the UK.. The only area in Universities where males
outnumber females currently is in hard sciences. The recent ‘discovery’
of the links between autism and science seem unlikely to influence
policy makers overly.
This imbalance is shocking, and is something the amateur radio community
could look to address, by encouraging younger *males* in schools to
consider academic study. The remarks above regarding the very negative
characterisation of science and scientific culture in mainstream media
are probably related. ‘Nerd, Geek, Anorak, …’ very appealing!
As the RAE is fundamentally exam and practical based, it offers equal
opportunity, no matter your learning style, something which could be
promoted.
Ofcom, businesses and radio spectrum
==============================
Ofcom seem very interested in trying to hijack amateur radio spectrum in
order to ‘sell’ it to businesses. Once the family silver is gone, there
will be no getting it back. One argument is the falling number of
licences granted, however, there are far more now than there were 50
years ago, so this seems to be a weak argument.
Contrarily, Ofcom appear to have zero role in, or even any recognition
of, the educational value of amateur radio.
Other interest groups
================
Radio amateurs have much in common with other amateur and professional
groups, such as Astronomers, IET, chess clubs, BCS (British Computing
Society). Politics usually gets in the way of things I know, but maybe
forming philosophical societies which include all of these people might
help.
Conclusions
==========
1. A re-characterisation of scientific people in a positive light is
essential in mainstream culture. The moral and intellectual high-ground
has been lost, and needs be re-gained. Influencing mainstream media is
critical, and perhaps the RSGB’s film will address some of that, so in
that sense, I’ve rather persuaded myself that it has cultural value
beyond my initial feeling.
2. A nice glossy film associating amateur radio with feel-good, slightly
edgy, but ultimately morally upstanding lifestyle, accessible to all,
yet forming a powerful and desirable sub-culture, could well result in
huge growth again. It’s interesting to note that most dystopian,
post-apocalypse futures films do not show communications as existing at
all; perhaps one where radio amateurs continue to communicate in the
dystopian future would be an interesting new take. Raynet meets Mad
Max, but feeling like Convoy.
3. Spin-off television with an amateur radio focus could have almost
immeasurable advantage. The adventures of the Wizards of West Kent :-)
TX Factor will not achieve this, it’s very good indeed, but is about
amateur radio, it’s not about lifestyle at all. Hmm - here’s a thought,
why not invite the TX factor team to make a show about one, or several
Raynet events? That could show amateur radio supporting the community
in a very positive way.
4. In 2003, RAE passes fell to below the 1959 level. I don’t know the
figures since, but we are 12 years on. Academically, there has been a
recent resurgence in scientific study at universities, so the time is
absolutely right to go back out to those science departments and look to
recruit into amateur radio. Be aware, though, that they are mostly
male, so any material should be made with that in mind!
5. The RSGB should work *with* Ofcom to make representation to academics
regarding amateur radio and its educational value. Ofcom should not be
simply acting as the store-keeper for spectrum.
6. Radio amateurs, clubs and the RSGB should work with other groups to
create and promote broad-interest philosophical societies, which can
help encourage males into education; noting that the RAE is highly
non-discriminatory.
============================
Tables of Amateurs around the world
============================
R.Amateurs By %age population, 15 years ago:
Country Number of amateur
radio operators % population Year of
Report Source
Japan 1,296,059 1.012 1999 [2]
Slovenia 6,500 0.317 2000 [2]
Republic of China 68,692 0.296 1999 [2]
South Korea 141,000 0.288 2000 [2]
Thailand 176,278 0.275 2006 [2]
United States 738,497 0.239 2012 [3]
Canada 69,183 0.201 2011 [3]
Denmark 8,668 0.156 2012 [5]
Spain 58,700 0.127 1999 [2]
Norway 5,302 0.106 2000 [2]
United Kingdom 58,426 0.094 2000 [2]
Germany 75,262 0.092 2007 [4]
Australia 15,328 0.067 2000 [2]
Italy 30,000 0.049 1993 [2]
Argentina 16,889 0.042 1999 [2]
Poland 16,000 0.041 2000 [2]
Ukraine 17,265 0.037 2000 [2]
Russia 38,000 0.026 1993 [2]
France 14,160 0.02 2013 [2]
Brazil 32,053 0.016 1997 [2]
South Africa 6,000 0.012 1994 [2]
Indonesia 27,815 0.011 1997 [2]
India 15,679 0.001 2000 [2]
RAs by absolute numbers 15 years ago:
Country Number of amateur
radio operators % population Year of
Report Source
Japan 1,296,059 1.012 1999 [2]
United States 738,497 0.239 2012 [3]
Thailand 176,278 0.275 2006 [2]
South Korea 141,000 0.288 2000 [2]
Germany 75,262 0.092 2007 [4]
Canada 69,183 0.201 2011 [3]
Republic of China 68,692 0.296 1999 [2]
Spain 58,700 0.127 1999 [2]
United Kingdom 58,426 0.094 2000 [2]
Russia 38,000 0.026 1993 [2]
Brazil 32,053 0.016 1997 [2]
Italy 30,000 0.049 1993 [2]
Indonesia 27,815 0.011 1997 [2]
Ukraine 17,265 0.037 2000 [2]
Argentina 16,889 0.042 1999 [2]
Poland 16,000 0.041 2000 [2]
India 15,679 0.001 2000 [2]
Australia 15,328 0.067 2000 [2]
France 14,160 0.02 2013 [2]
Denmark 8,668 0.156 2012 [5]
Slovenia 6,500 0.317 2000 [2]
South Africa 6,000 0.012 1994 [2]
Norway 5,302 0.106 2000 [2]
