[windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - suggestions
- From: Steve Snyder <kwajalein@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:40:37 +1200
It's not where you work? :D
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Greg Reese <gareese@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> the problem is these kids have seen Swordfish too many times and think it's
> all Halle Berry and cool cars in IT.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Berny Stapleton
> <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I got asked by my old school to come back and give them a hand
>> because their previous admin had been malicious and they needed to
>> tidy up their environment before handing it over to a new admin.
>>
>> I found a couple of kids who were exploring the network because they
>> didn't understand it. I didn't give them console access they weren't
>> "admins", yes, getting them to do mundane tasks like replacing
>> keyboards, setting up new workstations, explaining the odd bits and
>> pieces to them wasn't wasted time for me (And besides, they are going
>> to school, so it's not like they are with you all day). This is all
>> new stuff for them, yeah sure, we have been doing it for 10 - 15 years
>> (If not more), and it's mundane for us, but for them it's something
>> that they haven't done before.
>>
>> Once the kids knew that on their network (There was two, a staff
>> network, physically isolated by building area, somewhere they didn't
>> have access to), and they understood what was there, there wasn't
>> anything for them to explore. They also found some respect for the
>> purpose that it was there for.
>>
>> Giving a student the ability to kill jobs on a print queue as opposed
>> to running the whole server are two totally different matters. I ended
>> up hiring a couple of the kids that came out of that school at a later
>> date because they started in IT because of what I did.
>>
>> Berny
>>
>> 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> > Ok, have you ever actually DONE this? Because in my experience that's
>> NOT
>> > the way it works. That just gives them more opportunities to "explore".
>> In
>> > many cases these kids don't think they're doing any harm because they're
>> > NOT "attacking" - just "looking around". Now I have them logging into
>> > servers, usually at the console in the server room, where they can pop a
>> CD
>> > or floppy in and really do some damage? No thanks! And I have to
>> supervise
>> > them? Sorry, I'm busy enough as it is. I don't have time to
>> babysit. Unless
>> > it's REALLY simple stuff like replacing keyboards or setting up
>> > workstations, I just can't afford to make what I consider a bad
>> investment
>> > of my time and effort
>> >
>> > My solution? I had a meeting with him, the principal, his parents, and
>> the
>> > local cop. We explained exactly what the policy and the law says on
>> this,
>> > and what would happen to him. Done. And word spread fast. They don't
>> stand
>> > much of a chance getting a decent IT job with a criminal record.
>> >
>> >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:27:03 +0000
>> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - suggestions
>> >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >> Would I TRUST them implicitly? No, it's not their job to be enforcing
>> >> stuff, nor do they have the knowledge or maturity to properly look
>> >> after it. But for 1 or 2 students who see things like network print
>> >> queues filling up all the time (Out of paper and people hitting print
>> >> 20 times because their job didn't come out straight away), and giving
>> >> them something to do (Helping you around the place in their spare
>> >> time, which also means that they are supervised) gives them a sense of
>> >> responsibility for the network, so they don't WANT to attack it so
>> >> much. They will ask you questions, and you will end up teaching them a
>> >> bit, but instead of them attacking the network to find an answer, they
>> >> ask a question. When they see or find something, they come to you
>> >> straight away with it.
>> >>
>> >> It's free and it gets them onside.
>> >>
>> >> Berny
>> >>
>> >> 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> > I gotta go with the solution in Snyder's environment ;-)> I've dealt
>> >> > with
>> >> > kids like this before. No matter how many holes we plug, they'll
>> >> > find new
>> >> > ones. You can even put them to work - but would you TRUST them with
>> your
>> >> > network or sensitive data? They ONLY way to put a stop to it have
>> >> > consequences for their actions - and impose them!
>> >> >
>> >> > Richard Eells
>> >> >
>> >> >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:00 +0000
>> >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
>> suggestions
>> >> >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>
>> >> >> OK,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe it's just me, but you gotta admit, that's inventive!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would be asking him if he has considered a career in IT
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Berny
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2009/3/26 Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >> > ok guys, after some serious talking to, the kid has decided to let
>> us
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > on
>> >> >> > some of his tricks.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 1. Download zip files allows him to get to the C: drive by
>> being
>> >> >> > able
>> >> >> > to access the Temp Internet files.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 2. If he disconnects the computer from the network, it
>> installs
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > local
>> >> >> > profile for him, giving him access to the C: drive and the “Run”
>> >> >> > command.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 3. He runs a “compressed” cmd file from within PowerPoint.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 4. By running “Find Printer” he is able to find users
>> accounts.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 5. He accesses “command.com” (the equivalent of cmd.exe).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 6. He runs cmd.exe to get to files on the servers.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Should this kid not be studying, rather than keeping me busy?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Anyway, just thought to share.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Patrick
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ________________________________
>> >> >> > From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:54:33 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
>> >> >> > suggestions
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes I understand kids will be kids but it covers you.
>> >> >> > Jim Kenzig
>> >> >> > Blog: http://www.techblink.com
>> >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig
>> >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hi Jim,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This is an idea I have suggested, and I think there is a good
>> case
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> push
>> >> >> >> this forward. Whats I have found is that no matter how tight you
>> try
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> make
>> >> >> >> things the kids will seek to break in. In most cases because they
>> do
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> understand what the consequences could be if enforced.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Really annoying.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Patrick
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> ________________________________
>> >> >> >> From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms/ <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:59:44 PM
>> >> >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
>> >> >> >> suggestions
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Well I am not sure about Australia but here we do have computer
>> >> >> >> hacking
>> >> >> >> laws and a simple "Your current computer activity appears to
>> >> >> >> be illegal
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> you may be prosecuted if you do not cease and desist" dm to the
>> >> >> >> computer may
>> >> >> >> be enough. You of course also make sure that you have a proper
>> >> >> >> logon
>> >> >> >> privacy message in place prior to logon that requires an OK
>> click.
>> >> >> >> Here is ours:
>> >> >> >> THIS SYSTEM IS FOR USE OF AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND ACTIVITIES ONLY!
>> >> >> >> Activities may be subject to monitoring, recording, and periodic
>> >> >> >> audits
>> >> >> >> The system and all content are property of CCPL and are NOT
>> >> >> >> considered
>> >> >> >> private.
>> >> >> >> The organization may access any users accounts or communications.
>> >> >> >> Anyone using this system expressly consents to the above and to
>> all
>> >> >> >> CCPL
>> >> >> >> Policies and Rules regarding
>> >> >> >> computer and Internet use and security.
>> >> >> >> OK
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This should cover you legally at least.
>> >> >> >> Regards
>> >> >> >> Jim Kenzig
>> >> >> >> Blog: http://www.techblink.com
>> >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig
>> >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Berny Stapleton
>> >> >> >> <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Yes, it was actually regedit and they were modifying the SAM.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Quite clever really, but a little frustrating.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> 2009/3/25 Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From Data Corp.
>> >> >> >>> <bcoffman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >> >>> > Scheduled task can run in System context & allow someone to
>> >> >> >>> > launch a
>> >> >> >>> > cmd
>> >> >> >>> > prompt or something with basically full control of the system.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >>> > From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>> > [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sorin
>> Srbu
>> >> >> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:39 AM
>> >> >> >>> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
>> >> >> >>> > suggestions
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Could you please elaborate on the scheduler thing, what's that
>> >> >> >>> > about?
>> >> >> >>> > Thx.
>> >> >> >>> > --
>> >> >> >>> > /Sorin
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >>> >>From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-
>> >> >> >>> >>bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
>> >> >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:38 PM
>> >> >> >>> >>To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>> >>Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
>> >> >> >>> >> suggestions
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>Oh, turn off the scheduler. Keep your patches up to date.
>> (That's
>> >> >> >>> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >>one that caught me)
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > **********************
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>> >> >> >>> >
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>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
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>> >> >
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