the problem is these kids have seen Swordfish too many times and think it's all Halle Berry and cool cars in IT. On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Berny Stapleton <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote: > Yeah, I got asked by my old school to come back and give them a hand > because their previous admin had been malicious and they needed to > tidy up their environment before handing it over to a new admin. > > I found a couple of kids who were exploring the network because they > didn't understand it. I didn't give them console access they weren't > "admins", yes, getting them to do mundane tasks like replacing > keyboards, setting up new workstations, explaining the odd bits and > pieces to them wasn't wasted time for me (And besides, they are going > to school, so it's not like they are with you all day). This is all > new stuff for them, yeah sure, we have been doing it for 10 - 15 years > (If not more), and it's mundane for us, but for them it's something > that they haven't done before. > > Once the kids knew that on their network (There was two, a staff > network, physically isolated by building area, somewhere they didn't > have access to), and they understood what was there, there wasn't > anything for them to explore. They also found some respect for the > purpose that it was there for. > > Giving a student the ability to kill jobs on a print queue as opposed > to running the whole server are two totally different matters. I ended > up hiring a couple of the kids that came out of that school at a later > date because they started in IT because of what I did. > > Berny > > 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > > Ok, have you ever actually DONE this? Because in my experience that's NOT > > the way it works. That just gives them more opportunities to "explore". > In > > many cases these kids don't think they're doing any harm because they're > > NOT "attacking" - just "looking around". Now I have them logging into > > servers, usually at the console in the server room, where they can pop a > CD > > or floppy in and really do some damage? No thanks! And I have to > supervise > > them? Sorry, I'm busy enough as it is. I don't have time to > babysit. Unless > > it's REALLY simple stuff like replacing keyboards or setting up > > workstations, I just can't afford to make what I consider a bad > investment > > of my time and effort > > > > My solution? I had a meeting with him, the principal, his parents, and > the > > local cop. We explained exactly what the policy and the law says on this, > > and what would happen to him. Done. And word spread fast. They don't > stand > > much of a chance getting a decent IT job with a criminal record. > > > >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:27:03 +0000 > >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - suggestions > >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > >> Would I TRUST them implicitly? No, it's not their job to be enforcing > >> stuff, nor do they have the knowledge or maturity to properly look > >> after it. But for 1 or 2 students who see things like network print > >> queues filling up all the time (Out of paper and people hitting print > >> 20 times because their job didn't come out straight away), and giving > >> them something to do (Helping you around the place in their spare > >> time, which also means that they are supervised) gives them a sense of > >> responsibility for the network, so they don't WANT to attack it so > >> much. They will ask you questions, and you will end up teaching them a > >> bit, but instead of them attacking the network to find an answer, they > >> ask a question. When they see or find something, they come to you > >> straight away with it. > >> > >> It's free and it gets them onside. > >> > >> Berny > >> > >> 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > >> > I gotta go with the solution in Snyder's environment ;-)> I've dealt > >> > with > >> > kids like this before. No matter how many holes we plug, they'll > >> > find new > >> > ones. You can even put them to work - but would you TRUST them with > your > >> > network or sensitive data? They ONLY way to put a stop to it have > >> > consequences for their actions - and impose them! > >> > > >> > Richard Eells > >> > > >> >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:00 +0000 > >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - > suggestions > >> >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> > >> >> OK, > >> >> > >> >> Maybe it's just me, but you gotta admit, that's inventive! > >> >> > >> >> I would be asking him if he has considered a career in IT > >> >> > >> >> Berny > >> >> > >> >> 2009/3/26 Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx>: > >> >> > ok guys, after some serious talking to, the kid has decided to let > us > >> >> > in > >> >> > on > >> >> > some of his tricks. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > 1. Download zip files allows him to get to the C: drive by > being > >> >> > able > >> >> > to access the Temp Internet files. > >> >> > > >> >> > 2. If he disconnects the computer from the network, it > installs > >> >> > a > >> >> > local > >> >> > profile for him, giving him access to the C: drive and the “Run” > >> >> > command. > >> >> > > >> >> > 3. He runs a “compressed” cmd file from within PowerPoint. > >> >> > > >> >> > 4. By running “Find Printer” he is able to find users > accounts. > >> >> > > >> >> > 5. He accesses “command.com” (the equivalent of cmd.exe). > >> >> > > >> >> > 6. He runs cmd.exe to get to files on the servers. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Should this kid not be studying, rather than keeping me busy? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Anyway, just thought to share. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > > >> >> > Patrick > >> >> > > >> >> > ________________________________ > >> >> > From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx> > >> >> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:54:33 PM > >> >> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - > >> >> > suggestions > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes I understand kids will be kids but it covers you. > >> >> > Jim Kenzig > >> >> > Blog: http://www.techblink.com > >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig > >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hi Jim, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> This is an idea I have suggested, and I think there is a good case > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> push > >> >> >> this forward. Whats I have found is that no matter how tight you > try > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> make > >> >> >> things the kids will seek to break in. In most cases because they > do > >> >> >> not > >> >> >> understand what the consequences could be if enforced. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Really annoying. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Patrick > >> >> >> > >> >> >> ________________________________ > >> >> >> From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms/ <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx> > >> >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:59:44 PM > >> >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - > >> >> >> suggestions > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Well I am not sure about Australia but here we do have computer > >> >> >> hacking > >> >> >> laws and a simple "Your current computer activity appears to > >> >> >> be illegal > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> you may be prosecuted if you do not cease and desist" dm to the > >> >> >> computer may > >> >> >> be enough. You of course also make sure that you have a proper > >> >> >> logon > >> >> >> privacy message in place prior to logon that requires an OK click. > >> >> >> Here is ours: > >> >> >> THIS SYSTEM IS FOR USE OF AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND ACTIVITIES ONLY! > >> >> >> Activities may be subject to monitoring, recording, and periodic > >> >> >> audits > >> >> >> The system and all content are property of CCPL and are NOT > >> >> >> considered > >> >> >> private. > >> >> >> The organization may access any users accounts or communications. > >> >> >> Anyone using this system expressly consents to the above and to > all > >> >> >> CCPL > >> >> >> Policies and Rules regarding > >> >> >> computer and Internet use and security. > >> >> >> OK > >> >> >> > >> >> >> This should cover you legally at least. > >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> Jim Kenzig > >> >> >> Blog: http://www.techblink.com > >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig > >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Berny Stapleton > >> >> >> <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Yes, it was actually regedit and they were modifying the SAM. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Quite clever really, but a little frustrating. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> 2009/3/25 Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From Data Corp. > >> >> >>> <bcoffman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > >> >> >>> > Scheduled task can run in System context & allow someone to > >> >> >>> > launch a > >> >> >>> > cmd > >> >> >>> > prompt or something with basically full control of the system. > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> >>> > From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> >>> > [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sorin > Srbu > >> >> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:39 AM > >> >> >>> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> >>> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - > >> >> >>> > suggestions > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > Could you please elaborate on the scheduler thing, what's that > >> >> >>> > about? > >> >> >>> > Thx. > >> >> >>> > -- > >> >> >>> > /Sorin > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> >>-----Original Message----- > >> >> >>> >>From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000- > >> >> >>> >>bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton > >> >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:38 PM > >> >> >>> >>To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >> >>> >>Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - > >> >> >>> >> suggestions > >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >>Oh, turn off the scheduler. Keep your patches up to date. > (That's > >> >> >>> >> the > >> >> >>> >>one that caught me) > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > ********************** > >> >> >>> > To Unsubscribe, set digest or vacation > >> >> >>> > mode or view archives use the below link. > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > //www.freelists.org/list/windows2000 > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> ********************** > >> >> >>> To Unsubscribe, set digest or vacation > >> >> >>> mode or view archives use the below link. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/windows2000 > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> ********************** > >> >> To Unsubscribe, set digest or vacation > >> >> mode or view archives use the below link. > >> >> > >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/windows2000 > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with > Internet > >> > Explorer 8. > >> ********************** > >> To Unsubscribe, set digest or vacation > >> mode or view archives use the below link. > >> > >> //www.freelists.org/list/windows2000 > > > > ________________________________ > > Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet > > Explorer 8. > ********************** > To Unsubscribe, set digest or vacation > mode or view archives use the below link. > > //www.freelists.org/list/windows2000 >