[THIN] Re: Desktop
- From: "Mads Sørensen" <thinmails@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:27:56 +0200
You have a point there with XenDesktop agents.. But as you also write, this
has to be tested. .:-)
Unfortunately my "XenDesktop Beta" test project has just been stopped (Had
only downloaded the install files :- ), because something more important
(Paying customer) came up.. :-)
But my Virtuozzo environment is running, so when I get the time I may try
testing it.. also I need my server with AMD-V support before I can get the
XenServer running.
/Mads
2008/4/1, Steve Greenberg <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> I don't have any experience with Provision Networks product, let's have
> Rick comment on that…..
>
>
>
> We are talking about PS within each container, no VMWare in this case,
> using the container with PS to provide a one user Terminal Server/PS
> environment!
>
>
>
> I don't know if Xen Desktop will integrate with Virtuozzo containers. I
> suspect it won't because the agent that goes on the workstation (physical,
> virtual, blade, etc) is software designed for XP and Vista and is somewhat
> unlikely to work in Virtuozzo. I say this because when I have spoken with
> the XEN desktop team at conferences they suggested that this agent is kernel
> based and specific to the workstation flavor of the OS. That never stopped
> us before, so this would need investigation and testing….
>
>
>
>
>
> *Steve Greenberg*
>
> Thin Client Computing
>
> 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
>
> Scottsdale, AZ 85266
>
> *(602) 432-8649*
>
> www.thinclient.net
>
> *steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *Mads Sørensen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:45 AM
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop
>
>
>
> I hear what you are saying.. but I don't have any experience with
> Provision Network products, so I don't know what they could add to the
> environment, do you have a link (Presentation) or a demo video with
> Provision Network VAS used in a Virtuozzo environment?
>
>
>
> Regarding Applications there are many options:
>
>
>
> Streaming:
>
> - Citrix XenApp
>
> - Microsoft Application Virtualization(Softtricity SoftGrid)
>
>
>
> Publish Application:
>
> - Citrix XenApp
>
> - Windows Server 2008 TS (or maybe not.. :-)
>
>
>
> You could also create the application as templates on the Virtuozzo server
> and then add them to the containers. Applications can be added "on-the-fly"
> by the users self via the web interface and here they could also start a new
> desktop, depending on there access rights.
>
>
>
> Yes we are missing the USB redirection... guessing that's were Citrix or
> Provisioning Networks walks into the picture.. :)
>
>
>
> Steve, I'm not sure I understand you setup with both Virtuozzo and VM's
> ?? will you install VMWare inside the containers? or just PS inside the
> containers?
>
>
>
> Now I haven't tested XenDesktop yet, but will it be able to integrate that
> technology into the Virtuozzo containers and then use the ICA protocol to
> connect to the "VDI" instead of using RDP?
>
> /Mads
>
> 2008/4/1, Steve Greenberg <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> This is an interesting distinction. I think you probably should classify
> VDI on Virtuozzo as SBC, yet it isn't truly shared in the same way as TS. It
> is really an in-between hybrid. It is not truly SBC because if you customize
> the registry or file system in a virtual machine, it does copy on write,
> they are in fact represented as a distinct registry and file system to the
> machine. It is not truly VDI because important elements of the host OS are
> shared.
>
>
>
> For those who don't know this, Joe and I work together so we have
> discussed this many times. I really want the chance to do a production
> system which you described which uses Virtuozzo with VM's running PS but
> treat the VM's as single user machines. This would give you the best of all
> worlds- efficiency, a dedicated machine per user and the features of PS
> applied to the "VDI" session. Of course you could substitute Provision
> Networks potentitally feature wise. I don't know their license model, but I
> do know that since PS has no per-server cost that you can do this and only
> pay for concurrency of users.
>
>
>
> The potential downfall of this would be the MS licensing. You really would
> need to use Data Center edition of WIN2K3 (not sure about 2008) to allow the
> density of virtual machines that this could potentially host. So, once
> again, it all hinges on the economics of the MS portion…..
>
>
>
>
>
> *Steve Greenberg*
>
> Thin Client Computing
>
> 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
>
> Scottsdale, AZ 85266
>
> *(602) 432-8649*
>
> www.thinclient.net
>
> *steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *Joe Shonk
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:57 AM
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop
>
>
>
> I still say it would be better if there was a XP version of Virtuozzo
> instead of a skinned version of Windows 2003. What advantage would
> Virtuozzo for VDI have over a conventional SBC Desktop? I would say from a
> Presentation Server vs XenDesktop standpoint, PS with Virtuozzo would be a
> better solution that Virtuozzo and XenDesktop. Why? Because you can
> publish applications (set up each VE as a 1 user terminal server for
> application isolation).
>
>
>
> I'm not disputing that Virtuozzo isn't efficient and scalable but you have
> to consider why it is you're choosing a VDI solution over a SBC solution.
> What is it you're getting out of a VDI solution that you can't get out of
> SBC? Virtuozzo is a moot point because everything it offers for a VDI
> solution, it also offers for SBC.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
> Behalf Of *Rick Mack
> *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2008 10:19 PM
> *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop
>
>
>
> Hi Mads,
>
>
>
> NO argument, Virtuozzo is brilliant from a scalability and efficiency
> viewpoint, particularly when compared to using hypervisors.
>
>
>
> Because you're doing operating system partitioning instead of hosting
> separate instances of an operating system, it's nearly as scalable as
> terminal services.
>
>
>
> I was a fan of Virtuozzo years before SWsoft became Parallels.
>
>
>
> Nevertheless, it's more a virtualization platform than a VDI product
> because it's missing a lot of the little bits that round out a complete
> solution VDI solution. Stuff like published applications, UPD USB
> redirection, multi-media support etc.
>
>
>
> If you add Provision Network's VAS, which links into Virtuozzo, then you
> have a real VDI solution ;-)
>
>
>
> regards,
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> --
> Ulrich Mack
> Quest Software
> Provision Networks Division
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/31/08, *Mads Sørensen* <gasmadske@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Now we are talking VDI products, I think one of the best VDI products out
> there right now is "*Parallels Virtuozzo 4.0*", The beauty is that it uses
> the container technology on a Windows Server 2003 and with almost no
> overhead. So with a Windows Server 2003 Datacenter license and the XP Theme
> service, you can start as many desktops as you want or twice as many as you
> could with some other VDI software on one server :-). It has a really good
> management interface and I could go on. But as Rick also writes it may not
> be the place to discuss this.. so I'll stop her.. but it's really worth
> taking a look at.
>
>
>
> /Mads
>
>
>
>
>
>
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