[THIN] Re: Desktop
- From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:09:30 -0700
I don?t have any experience with Provision Networks product, let?s have Rick
comment on that?..
We are talking about PS within each container, no VMWare in this case, using
the container with PS to provide a one user Terminal Server/PS environment!
I don?t know if Xen Desktop will integrate with Virtuozzo containers. I
suspect it won?t because the agent that goes on the workstation (physical,
virtual, blade, etc) is software designed for XP and Vista and is somewhat
unlikely to work in Virtuozzo. I say this because when I have spoken with
the XEN desktop team at conferences they suggested that this agent is kernel
based and specific to the workstation flavor of the OS. That never stopped
us before, so this would need investigation and testing?.
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85266
(602) 432-8649
www.thinclient.net
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Mads Sørensen
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:45 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Desktop
I hear what you are saying.. but I don't have any experience with Provision
Network products, so I don't know what they could add to the environment, do
you have a link (Presentation) or a demo video with Provision Network VAS
used in a Virtuozzo environment?
Regarding Applications there are many options:
Streaming:
- Citrix XenApp
- Microsoft Application Virtualization(Softtricity SoftGrid)
Publish Application:
- Citrix XenApp
- Windows Server 2008 TS (or maybe not.. :-)
You could also create the application as templates on the Virtuozzo server
and then add them to the containers. Applications can be added "on-the-fly"
by the users self via the web interface and here they could also start a new
desktop, depending on there access rights.
Yes we are missing the USB redirection... guessing that's were Citrix or
Provisioning Networks walks into the picture.. :)
Steve, I'm not sure I understand you setup with both Virtuozzo and VM's ??
will you install VMWare inside the containers? or just PS inside the
containers?
Now I haven't tested XenDesktop yet, but will it be able to integrate that
technology into the Virtuozzo containers and then use the ICA protocol to
connect to the "VDI" instead of using RDP?
/Mads
2008/4/1, Steve Greenberg <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
This is an interesting distinction. I think you probably should classify VDI
on Virtuozzo as SBC, yet it isn't truly shared in the same way as TS. It is
really an in-between hybrid. It is not truly SBC because if you customize
the registry or file system in a virtual machine, it does copy on write,
they are in fact represented as a distinct registry and file system to the
machine. It is not truly VDI because important elements of the host OS are
shared.
For those who don't know this, Joe and I work together so we have discussed
this many times. I really want the chance to do a production system which
you described which uses Virtuozzo with VM's running PS but treat the VM's
as single user machines. This would give you the best of all worlds-
efficiency, a dedicated machine per user and the features of PS applied to
the "VDI" session. Of course you could substitute Provision Networks
potentitally feature wise. I don't know their license model, but I do know
that since PS has no per-server cost that you can do this and only pay for
concurrency of users.
The potential downfall of this would be the MS licensing. You really would
need to use Data Center edition of WIN2K3 (not sure about 2008) to allow the
density of virtual machines that this could potentially host. So, once
again, it all hinges on the economics of the MS portion?..
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85266
(602) 432-8649
<http://www.thinclient.net/> www.thinclient.net
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Joe Shonk
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:57 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Desktop
I still say it would be better if there was a XP version of Virtuozzo
instead of a skinned version of Windows 2003. What advantage would
Virtuozzo for VDI have over a conventional SBC Desktop? I would say from a
Presentation Server vs XenDesktop standpoint, PS with Virtuozzo would be a
better solution that Virtuozzo and XenDesktop. Why? Because you can
publish applications (set up each VE as a 1 user terminal server for
application isolation).
I'm not disputing that Virtuozzo isn't efficient and scalable but you have
to consider why it is you're choosing a VDI solution over a SBC solution.
What is it you're getting out of a VDI solution that you can't get out of
SBC? Virtuozzo is a moot point because everything it offers for a VDI
solution, it also offers for SBC.
Joe
_____
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Rick Mack
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:19 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Desktop
Hi Mads,
NO argument, Virtuozzo is brilliant from a scalability and efficiency
viewpoint, particularly when compared to using hypervisors.
Because you're doing operating system partitioning instead of hosting
separate instances of an operating system, it's nearly as scalable as
terminal services.
I was a fan of Virtuozzo years before SWsoft became Parallels.
Nevertheless, it's more a virtualization platform than a VDI product because
it's missing a lot of the little bits that round out a complete solution VDI
solution. Stuff like published applications, UPD USB redirection,
multi-media support etc.
If you add Provision Network's VAS, which links into Virtuozzo, then you
have a real VDI solution ;-)
regards,
Rick
--
Ulrich Mack
Quest Software
Provision Networks Division
On 3/31/08, Mads Sørensen <gasmadske@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Now we are talking VDI products, I think one of the best VDI products out
there right now is "Parallels Virtuozzo 4.0", The beauty is that it uses the
container technology on a Windows Server 2003 and with almost no overhead.
So with a Windows Server 2003 Datacenter license and the XP Theme service,
you can start as many desktops as you want or twice as many as you could
with some other VDI software on one server :-). It has a really good
management interface and I could go on. But as Rick also writes it may not
be the place to discuss this.. so I'll stop her.. but it's really worth
taking a look at.
/Mads
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