You have a point there with XenDesktop agents.. But as you also write, this has to be tested. .:-) Unfortunately my "XenDesktop Beta" test project has just been stopped (Had only downloaded the install files :- ), because something more important (Paying customer) came up.. :-) But my Virtuozzo environment is running, so when I get the time I may try testing it.. also I need my server with AMD-V support before I can get the XenServer running. /Mads 2008/4/1, Steve Greenberg <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > > I don't have any experience with Provision Networks product, let's have > Rick comment on that….. > > > > We are talking about PS within each container, no VMWare in this case, > using the container with PS to provide a one user Terminal Server/PS > environment! > > > > I don't know if Xen Desktop will integrate with Virtuozzo containers. I > suspect it won't because the agent that goes on the workstation (physical, > virtual, blade, etc) is software designed for XP and Vista and is somewhat > unlikely to work in Virtuozzo. I say this because when I have spoken with > the XEN desktop team at conferences they suggested that this agent is kernel > based and specific to the workstation flavor of the OS. That never stopped > us before, so this would need investigation and testing…. > > > > > > *Steve Greenberg* > > Thin Client Computing > > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453 > > Scottsdale, AZ 85266 > > *(602) 432-8649* > > www.thinclient.net > > *steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx* > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On > Behalf Of *Mads Sørensen > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:45 AM > *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop > > > > I hear what you are saying.. but I don't have any experience with > Provision Network products, so I don't know what they could add to the > environment, do you have a link (Presentation) or a demo video with > Provision Network VAS used in a Virtuozzo environment? > > > > Regarding Applications there are many options: > > > > Streaming: > > - Citrix XenApp > > - Microsoft Application Virtualization(Softtricity SoftGrid) > > > > Publish Application: > > - Citrix XenApp > > - Windows Server 2008 TS (or maybe not.. :-) > > > > You could also create the application as templates on the Virtuozzo server > and then add them to the containers. Applications can be added "on-the-fly" > by the users self via the web interface and here they could also start a new > desktop, depending on there access rights. > > > > Yes we are missing the USB redirection... guessing that's were Citrix or > Provisioning Networks walks into the picture.. :) > > > > Steve, I'm not sure I understand you setup with both Virtuozzo and VM's > ?? will you install VMWare inside the containers? or just PS inside the > containers? > > > > Now I haven't tested XenDesktop yet, but will it be able to integrate that > technology into the Virtuozzo containers and then use the ICA protocol to > connect to the "VDI" instead of using RDP? > > /Mads > > 2008/4/1, Steve Greenberg <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > > This is an interesting distinction. I think you probably should classify > VDI on Virtuozzo as SBC, yet it isn't truly shared in the same way as TS. It > is really an in-between hybrid. It is not truly SBC because if you customize > the registry or file system in a virtual machine, it does copy on write, > they are in fact represented as a distinct registry and file system to the > machine. It is not truly VDI because important elements of the host OS are > shared. > > > > For those who don't know this, Joe and I work together so we have > discussed this many times. I really want the chance to do a production > system which you described which uses Virtuozzo with VM's running PS but > treat the VM's as single user machines. This would give you the best of all > worlds- efficiency, a dedicated machine per user and the features of PS > applied to the "VDI" session. Of course you could substitute Provision > Networks potentitally feature wise. I don't know their license model, but I > do know that since PS has no per-server cost that you can do this and only > pay for concurrency of users. > > > > The potential downfall of this would be the MS licensing. You really would > need to use Data Center edition of WIN2K3 (not sure about 2008) to allow the > density of virtual machines that this could potentially host. So, once > again, it all hinges on the economics of the MS portion….. > > > > > > *Steve Greenberg* > > Thin Client Computing > > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453 > > Scottsdale, AZ 85266 > > *(602) 432-8649* > > www.thinclient.net > > *steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx* > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On > Behalf Of *Joe Shonk > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:57 AM > *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop > > > > I still say it would be better if there was a XP version of Virtuozzo > instead of a skinned version of Windows 2003. What advantage would > Virtuozzo for VDI have over a conventional SBC Desktop? I would say from a > Presentation Server vs XenDesktop standpoint, PS with Virtuozzo would be a > better solution that Virtuozzo and XenDesktop. Why? Because you can > publish applications (set up each VE as a 1 user terminal server for > application isolation). > > > > I'm not disputing that Virtuozzo isn't efficient and scalable but you have > to consider why it is you're choosing a VDI solution over a SBC solution. > What is it you're getting out of a VDI solution that you can't get out of > SBC? Virtuozzo is a moot point because everything it offers for a VDI > solution, it also offers for SBC. > > > > Joe > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On > Behalf Of *Rick Mack > *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2008 10:19 PM > *To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > *Subject:* [THIN] Re: Desktop > > > > Hi Mads, > > > > NO argument, Virtuozzo is brilliant from a scalability and efficiency > viewpoint, particularly when compared to using hypervisors. > > > > Because you're doing operating system partitioning instead of hosting > separate instances of an operating system, it's nearly as scalable as > terminal services. > > > > I was a fan of Virtuozzo years before SWsoft became Parallels. > > > > Nevertheless, it's more a virtualization platform than a VDI product > because it's missing a lot of the little bits that round out a complete > solution VDI solution. Stuff like published applications, UPD USB > redirection, multi-media support etc. > > > > If you add Provision Network's VAS, which links into Virtuozzo, then you > have a real VDI solution ;-) > > > > regards, > > > > Rick > > > > -- > Ulrich Mack > Quest Software > Provision Networks Division > > > > > > > > On 3/31/08, *Mads Sørensen* <gasmadske@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Now we are talking VDI products, I think one of the best VDI products out > there right now is "*Parallels Virtuozzo 4.0*", The beauty is that it uses > the container technology on a Windows Server 2003 and with almost no > overhead. So with a Windows Server 2003 Datacenter license and the XP Theme > service, you can start as many desktops as you want or twice as many as you > could with some other VDI software on one server :-). It has a really good > management interface and I could go on. But as Rick also writes it may not > be the place to discuss this.. so I'll stop her.. but it's really worth > taking a look at. > > > > /Mads > > > > > >