So this is an interesting dilemna. I would say, firstly, my procedure would require the dogs to go at a slow trot on a loose lead. This i would think help level the playing field when it comes to attitude vs less attitude. I think it would come down to a matter of degree, and that what makes a hypothetical question like this difficult to answer without actually seeing the two dog. I think i would rest on my procedure and understanding of the standard to evaluate the two dogs, knowing my procedure lessens the advangtage a dog with more attitude might otherwise have. That being said, if the dog that didn't have attitude was a real "dead head" i would be concerned it's work ethic(understanding fully well that a dead head in the show ring doesn't necessarily translate to a dog that doesn't like to work). Interesting question though, as this is the sort of situation that leads one to look at oneself as to what they prioritize in the ring. Bill almanya@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: when a dog has a very lackluster attitude in the ring they will not use themselves properly or efficiently therefore making it very hard to evaluate their movement against what the standard calls for. We know that dogs can ruin themselves by the way they show. So in all actuality you aren't judging showmanship, but showmanship is what makes the evaluation & judging easier. In other words you can have a really nice animal screw itself up and one with a little lesser merits show everything it has to the fullest extent and never misses a step. As a judge you have to be able to see their qualities to judge them....................even if it's just a small portion of the ring as in Fred's statement on the way to the exit. Amy Safdir Almanya Shepherds www.almanyagsd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:56 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: New Question. judges & future judges > Geez I must be way out in left field. While I've always appreciated the > dogs > that go out there and "ask for it" in the ring, I never seriously thought > the > shows were about rewarding "better showmanship!" I thought they were > about > rewarding the dog that most closely CONFORMED (as in conformation show) to > the > standard. No one wonder I haven't been winning as much as I'd like to! > Just sign me not a judge and no plans to be one -- and I guess that's a > good > thing! > > Susan Casey > Erynbrook German Shepherds and > Front Range German Shepherd Rescue > > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the > original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or > FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the > original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY > MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS > PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY > FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL > BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================