Fred, I have shown at all breeds and specialties and won at both. I would rather win a specialty any day, but there are excellent judges in both rings, Yes, even breeders and owners of other breeds can and do an excellent job in some cases. I have won under some judges that I will never show to again also. A good eye is a good eye and face it, we have some specialty judges that got their license, because of someone else telling them how to breed. There are crooks in both rings and they may not realize it, but other exhibitors know when that takes place, EKOLAN1@xxxxxxx wrote: You will notice that the breeders and exhibitors who frequent and win in the all breed ring will go to the ends of the earth to prove the all breed judge who put them up or finished their dog has a better eye than Capt. Max even though he or she spent their life breeding and showing Pom.s PS put any other breed in place of Pom.s PPSa couple times in the past when I have needed one or two points to finish I have taken a lotto ticket and entered an all breed. ppps I know I won't change anybody's mind and you can't change mine but it's fun saying it out loud. hehehehe ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Ann www.edangsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================