[sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
- From: "Robert Parks" <rparks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:47:54 -0700
As far as Douglas Ranch goes, The development will start at the south end,
near the Sun Valley Parkway and the Hassayampa, across from the new Sun
City, Festival Ranch which has been selling houses for some time now. The
engineers are just now receiving the remaining mapping to complete their
17,000 acre master plan. I will try to talk to the engineer and see how long
the process is before thy start moving dirt.
Other areas I have seen large master planning requests for are the Vekol
Valley from I -8 north in T6S R1E, and from around Mobile to the southern
end of Estrella Ranch, which was in the paper recently, and Goodyear wants
to annex. This one is a 20 year project to build out, starting on the east
side near Hiway 84.
If there are farms and ranches with water, the developers will be after
them.
There used to be a riding stable west of Lake Pleasant. They would take
hayrides north & to the west from their location to a site up in the hills.
I remember it as having a good skyline, but was not there after dark. Te
road upt here was easily driven.
All State land needs a permit to access, easily acquired through the right
office. National monuments have a strict no driving off designated roads
policy. Agua Fria NM has a decent road into it to where you can hike the
canyon. Check the Sierra Club AZ website.
When I drive to Pine, through Camp Verde over SR 87, the light dome of
Phoenix is clearly visible on the horizon as the road climbs up into the
forest. It would not ne objectionable except for low targets. It varies
depending on the weather and particulates in the air. On really clear days
it is minimal.
Thanks,
Robert G. Parks
Vice President
Aerial Mapping Company, Inc.
602-263-5728 voice
602-263-0165 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steve Coe
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:44 AM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
The ability of people to put up with some light pollution is going to be
different for different observers. For me personally I can deal with a
light dome like that from Flatiron, I just create an observing list that
does not look for anything in the east until it is up about 45 degrees or
so. Usually, I stay near the zenith or to the west from Flatiron.
For me, the reason to travel to a site that is only 50 to 60 miles from
central Phoenix is an opportunity to get SOME observing done by viewing away
from the light dome. And, so that I have a location that is useful when the
Moonrise time is around midnight.
I believe that the old Buckeye Hills site and Flatiron have certainly met
those criteria. I have lots of good observations from those two locations
and I do believe that we can find a place to use that is as useful as these
two and will remain so for a while longer. As someone said, the developers
do need to jump through a few hoops before they can start construction right
where we are located. That should give us some time to find a spot in the
next 2 or 3 months.
Hoping for the best;
Steve Coe
-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jimmy Ray
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:25 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
Hi Steve,
Excellent point. Which begs the question, how high above the horizon (in
degrees) must a light dome extend before it becomes intolerable for
southerly observations? northerly? east or west? At what distance from
phoenix (in the opposite direction ) does the light dome fall below this
standard? I'm fairly certain that this would produce an oblong to football
shaped foot print that would answer many questions like; Is a one hour
travel time even reasonable? Does it have to be further? It also answers
where to look. Draw it on a topo map and see what's left. If the CSC's
"light pollution map is that answer I'd say there's not a lot of "close"
places left, unless you lower the "standard" of "tolerability" or choose to
endure harsher weather extremes of temperature (colder and hotter).
Jimmy Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Coe
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:12 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
This is nothing but an opinion, but I think that the light dome of Phoenix
to the SOUTH of any observing location before Cherry Road is just going to
be too much to put up with. I know that I would not be willing to
consistently travel to a site around Cave Creek and see that gigantic light
dome eating up Sagittarius, Scorpius, Puppis, Cetus and like that.
Steve Coe
-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jimmy Ray
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:49 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
Paul,
The Bloody basin road branches off onto the "Great Western Trail" which goes
south down to Seven Springs (not that I would go that way (very rough)).
BUT, with the new freeways and such, going up behind the Cave Creek /
Carefree area might be some place to go look. The Seven springs area is
lower in elevation (warmer) and would put a mountain range between us and
Phoenix.
Jimmy Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Paul Dickson
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:52 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:03:24 -0700, Dan Gruber wrote:
> Has anybody explored up I -17 in the Black Canyon City area? PAS uses
> a park up there which isn't as good as FI mostly because it's too
> close to the freeway. But I remember lots of dirt roads in the area.
> Also, what about west of Lake Pleasant toward Wickenburg? I'd be happy
> to join somebody more familiar with the area on reconnaissance trips.
Anyone know what the driving restrictions are for National Monuments?
Anything like KOFA?
If the Agua Fria National Monument is too restrictive, Bloody Basin Rd exits
the monument after about 10 miles (east of I-17). About 1/2 mile north on
FR 677 there's a large cleared area (-111.97610 34.22919) about 50 yds east
of the road with access roads.
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=12&X=2050&Y=1
8939&W=3
There's a small hill to the west (3932 ft) and a taller one to the south
(just over 4080). The site might be 3910.
It might be worth checking out for distance and road conditions. It's about
15 miles closer than the Cherry Rd site, but only 500 ft lower (might be
still too cold for us desert rats during the winter).
There's another possibility less than a mile further down Bloody Basin Rd,
doubling back on FR 36 maybe a 1/10 mile.
If leaving the road isn't too restrictive on the monument, we might try the
road by Double Tank too, which is about 8 miles along Bloody Basin Rd.
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=11&Z=12&X=1013&Y=9
472&W=3
-Paul
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