[sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity

As Steve and Jimmy pointed out, having a light dome to the east or west
isn't as problematic as having one to the north or south (especially
south, for me personally).

Has anybody looked along Rte. 85 south of Buckeye Hills? That area still
looks pretty empty.

Also, what about the various EVAC sites?

I don't think we're going to lose FI for several years. But we know
it'll happen eventually so we might as well plan ahead.

Dan Gruber



-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Coe
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:44 AM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity

The ability of people to put up with some light pollution is going to be
different for different observers.  For me personally I can deal with a
light dome like that from Flatiron, I just create an observing list that
does not look for anything in the east until it is up about 45 degrees
or
so.  Usually, I stay near the zenith or to the west from Flatiron.  

For me, the reason to travel to a site that is only 50 to 60 miles from
central Phoenix is an opportunity to get SOME observing done by viewing
away
from the light dome.  And, so that I have a location that is useful when
the
Moonrise time is around midnight.  

I believe that the old Buckeye Hills site and Flatiron have certainly
met
those criteria.  I have lots of good observations from those two
locations
and I do believe that we can find a place to use that is as useful as
these
two and will remain so for a while longer.  As someone said, the
developers
do need to jump through a few hoops before they can start construction
right
where we are located.  That should give us some time to find a spot in
the
next 2 or 3 months.

Hoping for the best;
Steve Coe


-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jimmy Ray
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:25 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity

Hi Steve,
Excellent point. Which begs the question, how high above the horizon (in
degrees)  must a light dome extend before it becomes intolerable for
southerly observations? northerly? east or west? At what distance from
phoenix (in the opposite direction ) does the light dome fall below this
standard? I'm fairly certain that this would produce an oblong to
football
shaped foot print that would answer many questions like; Is a one hour
travel time even reasonable? Does it have to be further? It also answers
where to look. Draw it on a topo map and see what's left. If the CSC's
"light pollution map is that answer I'd say there's not a lot of "close"
places left, unless you lower the "standard" of "tolerability" or choose
to
endure harsher weather extremes of temperature (colder and hotter).

Jimmy Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steve Coe
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:12 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity


This is nothing but an opinion, but I think that the light dome of
Phoenix
to the SOUTH of any observing location before Cherry Road is just going
to
be too much to put up with.  I know that I would not be willing to
consistently travel to a site around Cave Creek and see that gigantic
light
dome eating up Sagittarius, Scorpius, Puppis, Cetus and like that.

Steve Coe


-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jimmy Ray
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:49 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity

Paul,

The Bloody basin road branches off onto the "Great Western Trail" which
goes
south down to Seven Springs (not that I would go that way (very rough)).
BUT, with the new freeways and such, going up behind the Cave Creek /
Carefree area might be some place to go look. The Seven springs area is
lower in elevation (warmer) and would put a mountain range between us
and
Phoenix.

Jimmy Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sac-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Paul Dickson
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:52 PM
To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sac-forum] Re: Flatiron and vicinity


On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:03:24 -0700, Dan Gruber wrote:

> Has anybody explored up I -17 in the Black Canyon City area? PAS uses
a
> park up there which isn't as good as FI mostly because it's too close
to
> the freeway. But I remember lots of dirt roads in the area. Also, what
> about west of Lake Pleasant toward Wickenburg? I'd be happy to join
> somebody more familiar with the area on reconnaissance trips.

Anyone know what the driving restrictions are for National Monuments?
Anything like KOFA?

If the Agua Fria National Monument is too restrictive, Bloody Basin Rd
exits the monument after about 10 miles (east of I-17).  About 1/2 mile
north on FR 677 there's a large cleared area (-111.97610 34.22919) about
50 yds east of the road with access roads.
 
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=12&X=2050&Y
=1
8939&W=3

There's a small hill to the west (3932 ft) and a taller one to the south
(just over 4080). The site might be 3910.

It might be worth checking out for distance and road conditions.  It's
about 15 miles closer than the Cherry Rd site, but only 500 ft lower
(might be still too cold for us desert rats during the winter).

There's another possibility less than a mile further down Bloody Basin
Rd, doubling back on FR 36 maybe a 1/10 mile.

If leaving the road isn't too restrictive on the monument, we might try
the road by Double Tank too, which is about 8 miles along Bloody Basin
Rd.
 
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=11&Z=12&X=1013&Y
=9
472&W=3

        -Paul

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