[rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
- From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:26:08 -0300
Austin and Eric:
If the items mentioned below are right, I
have nothing to discuss, I'm happy with my DOF calculators, I know we
discussed the topic in the past, there are archives on line for the
old discussion.
Carlos
2009/11/10 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> All I can say is you are completely missing the point. The DOF on your
> camera is fine, the DOF calculators are fine. That has nothing to do with
> the point.
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
>>
>>
>> Austin:
>> We had a similar discussion some years ago in the old RUG
>> and Eric also quoted the same or similar site and I read it by that
>> time, in practical photography I use the lens or the camera DOF
>> scales, they are good enough to me and also the DOF calculator that I
>> quoted and similars work very fine too, this is from the site
>> mentioned by Eric:
>> "It is well known that short focal length lenses have large apparent
>> depths of field and long telephoto lenses have small apparent depths
>> of field. _There are some very practical reasons for this conception_,
>> but it isn't quite true..." and then the theory starts, I take the
>> first part and get good results; if I'm in the middle of the wood and
>> have an unique opprtunity to take an image, I only have the Rollei
>> automatic DOF calculator or the lens DOF calculator for a quick
>> decision, they work to me as they are marked.
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> > Hi Carlos,
>> >
>> > What you're not doing when you use your DOF calculators, is
>> adjusting the
>> > distance to maintain the same relative image size. That's the point you
>> > seem to be missing..."same relative image size".
>> >
>> > I suggest you read the references Eric so kindly provided.
>> Start by looking
>> > at the chart titled "DOF for f/8, M ~= 1/20, 35mm format" at
>> the bottom of
>> > this section:
>> >
>> > http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
>> >
>> > It shows total DOF for same aperture, different focal lengths,
>> with distance
>> > adjusted to provide the same relative image size. Note the
>> total DOFs are
>> > nearly identical for all lenses at the same aperture. Then,
>> ask your self
>> > why... If you need help understanding that, perhaps someone
>> here would be
>> > willing to help. But, please read the references first.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Austin
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:50 AM
>> > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yes Austin, I know that the calculator is correct, what's the point?
>> > >
>> > > Carlos
>> > >
>> > > 2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> > > > Hi Carlos,
>> > > >
>> > > > The calculator is correct. You're either missing the point, or an
>> > > > understanding of the point. I must admit, I'm a bit surprised.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > > Austin
>> > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
>> CarlosMFreaza
>> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:36 AM
>> > > > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Eric, I showed you a real DOF calculator for the real photographic
>> > > > > world that I have used a lot of times with constant results for
>> > > > > photographs that I can also show, this the practice of
>> photography, be
>> > > > > happy with your theories.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Carlos
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> > > > > > Read and learn, Carlos:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Eric Goldstein
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:59 AM, CarlosMFreaza
>> > > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > > > > > I'm afraid you are wrong Eric, DOF is purely a function
>> > > of aperture
>> > > > > > > for a given lens (and given frame size), but if the lens
>> > > focal length
>> > > > > > > changes the DOF also changes if keeping constant f stop
>> > > and circle of
>> > > > > > > confusion size . You could play with this DOF calculator
>> > > changing only
>> > > > > > > the lens focal length and you'll see the way the real DOF
>> > > area also
>> > > > > > > changes:
>> > > > > > > http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
>> > > > > > > Carlos
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> > > > > > >> It can be argued that DOF is purely a function of aperture
>> > > > > and not FL.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Eric Goldstein
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> --
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:32 AM, CarlosMFreaza
>> > > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > > > > >> > Well, "any" camera is a term general too much. DOF has
>> > > to do first
>> > > > > > >> > with the lens focal length and the frame size and
>> the circle of
>> > > > > > >> > confusion size you consider acceptable and second with the
>> > > > > f stop; you
>> > > > > > >> > could stop down a 300mm lens for a 6x9 format at f11
>> > > or 16 (to say
>> > > > > > >> > something) and you could still have more deeper DOF with
>> > > > > the Rollei 35
>> > > > > > >> > at f3.5, my point was that the Rollei 35 Tessar has a
>> > > > > reasonable DOF
>> > > > > > >> > and sharpness even wide open if you focus close to
>> your desired
>> > > > > > >> > focusing point, in other words, it is not necessary a
>> > > > > telemeter under
>> > > > > > >> > these conditions, perhaps this was not the topic central
>> > > > > axis but it
>> > > > > > >> > has to do with some messages I read in the thread.
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> > BTW, the "universal" camera does not exist yet, if you
>> > > know your
>> > > > > > >> > tools, you also know where and why to use them.-
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> > Carlos
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> > 2009/11/10, Marvin <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>> > > > > > >> >> I think you missed the point Carlos, it's possible to
>> > > > > stop the lens down and
>> > > > > > >> >> have a large depth of field with just about any camera,
>> > > > > but that doesn't
>> > > > > > >> >> afford the individual much control. That's the problem
>> > > > > with the 35.
>> > > > > > >> >> Marvin.
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > > >> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> > > > > CarlosMFreaza
>> > > > > > >> >> Sent: 10 November 2009 17:01
>> > > > > > >> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > > >> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> I rarely had problems guessing the distance with the
>> > > > > Rollei 35, these
>> > > > > > >> >> two samples were taken during a travel, with the Tessar
>> > > > > wide open, 3,5
>> > > > > > >> >> 1/30 shutter speed and camera hand-held, the film was a
>> > > > > Kodak Ultra
>> > > > > > >> >> 400. The DOF is still deep at f 3.5 and the camera light
>> > > > > meter worked
>> > > > > > >> >> right.
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1433112977/
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1456649900/
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> Carlos
>> > > > > > >> >> ---
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