Re: Team Excellence Award Winner

Hello folks,
Well it is getting ridiculous. The goal of this list is discussing
programming and I don't think that discussing topics as television or
what a blind is teached or not will help here.
The question is: to plan a software you don't need sight. To plan a
land hoover which will walk in the moon you don't need sight. Sure you
will need sightedd folks near you to build the thing, but you can
perfectly plan it. Cars do walk, do have controls that if pressed will
make it walk or turn or stop or anything else. Cars aren't a visual
thing, they're mechanical and their goal is walking. A visual design
is visual, only this. It works visually, is built on top of visual
concepts, and have a pure visual result. So I would be able, if I
wanted, to plan a car and make sure he walks. But I won't be able to
intirely plan a visual interface and I will never be able to test it
myself. Got the thing? I hope you do.
I don't agree all with Mateu and Teddy, in fact I do think blind
people can do a lot of things, because these don't depend on a pure
visual concept ... but a blind can not have autonomy or all necessary
habilities to work lonely in something which evolves pure visual
concepts!! In fact that's why a blind can't drive: because this
deppends purely on a visual hability. Again, I am sure a blind can do
most part of stuff in visual designing, but he / she would always
depend on other folks to test and to some extent he / she will not be
able to do what a sighted could. Blinds can compet in everything which
evolves use of common resources, those ones that sighted and blind can
have access. But blinds won't be as good as sighted in mathers where
visual stuff is evolved because blinds simply have no way of achieving
pure visual things, and this can not be arged.
Marlon

2007/11/29, Matthew2007 <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Wow, this message is an example of complete idiocy.
>
> "The first land rover that landed on the moon. Was designed and built by a
> total blind guy at NASA."
> Firstly, name him and we'll look this person up. Secondly, do you mean to
> tell me he himself without the aid of anyone else designed and built this?
> He must have been incredibly independently rich.
>
> As for your "blind people can do anything mindset," jump in your car and
> drive on down to the beach where you can sign up for the fantasy land 10K
> marathon. Register and run the marathon without any type of sighted
> assistance. When you're finished with that, go to the store and buy some
> milk, a bag of cheetos, and refill your antipsychotic medication without
> help. then jump on a bicycle and find your way to your home without any
> sighted assistance. Let me place you in the center of a field and place $1
> million at any random location on the field, and if you can find and grab
> the money within 1 hour, you can keep the cash. I'm going to trip you up and
> place the money right behind you so that when you step forward you'll begin
> walking therefore making it impossible for you to find the cash. Do all
> these simple things without sighted help and then I will believe you can do
> anything.
>
> I'm beginning to notice a pattern in the mindset of those who have lost or
> never had sight as children in comparison to those who have lost their
> eyesight later in life. The younger individuals are pretty much repeating
> the platitudes that have been etched into their brains from a young age.
>
> Matthew
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>
>
> > Boy lets just throw you a self pity party!
> > Being blind you work with what you have and make everything around you
> > adapt to you or you to it.
> > The only things I can't do blind is read a book with my eyes, use a
> > scanner for that job, and thats about all I can see a blind person can't
> > really do.
> > If you think that everyone is limited by the sight only you have. Get
> > real, not all countries are as ignorant with the disabled and learning.
> > There are many blind in jobs we don't hear about, because they are not on
> > the web or want any part of it. but if you still think blind people can't
> > do what sighted people can just think on this thought.
> > The first land rover that landed on the moon. Was designed and built by a
> > total blind guy at NASA. pretty good for being blind when accessible
> > software wasn't even thought of!
> >
> > At 01:54 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
> >>CSS doesn't help you to see what's in a picture, what colors it uses, or
> >>how to align a form in an image with the surrounding text, or with another
> >>image.
> >>
> >>You talked about talent of others versus the miss of talent of others.
> >>Shame!
> >>When you do that, you should tell us the address of that web page that
> >>shown the "talent", and not try to tell us that a blind person can do what
> >>a sighted cannot do, because he could have talent.
> >>
> >>A musician that became deaf, can compose a melody if he heard before and
> >>if the knows very well how the instruments sound, but I don't think that
> >>musician could compose the same for some instruments that he never heard
> >>how they sound.
> >>In the world of design, everything's new for every page. Nothing's the
> >>same. The colors, the images, the text, the layout of the pages, the style
> >>that should be shown, so each combination is a new one.
> >>
> >>(I don't consider "design made by a dlind" the copying and pasting the
> >>html and css elements in a text editor after they were made by others, or
> >>after their layout was verified by other sighted users).
> >>
> >>And after so many discussions after this, I still can't see a single web
> >>page made by a "talented" blind web designer.
> >>
> >>Octavian
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:59 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>None of this stuff was done in a vacuum. There were specifications that
> >>>guided Jeff as he built the interface.
> >>>
> >>>I may be wrong, but I think sometimes people build software for others to
> >>>use. It may also be that some people are talented at things other people
> >>>are not. That may possibly mean that there could possibly be sighted
> >>>programmers who are not good designers of GUI's. It may also be that some
> >>>people who are blind may be able to imagine a layout well enough to be
> >>>able
> >>>to build one. Laying out web GUI's is nothing more than a matter of
> >>>simple
> >>>math using whole numbers and percentages. If you have a good
> >>>understanding
> >>>of how the CSS box model works, Web is one of the places where you have a
> >>>good chance to succeed because it uses pure text rather than mouse
> >>>movements.
> >>>
> >>>I'll make sure I open my mind in another forum.
> >>>
> >>>Each of us lives in everyone else's world.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>Jim
> >>>
> >>>James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> >>>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
> >>>
> >>>"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
> >>>world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>             "Octavian
> >>>             Rasnita"
> >>>             <orasnita@xxxxxxx
> >>> To
> >>>             om>                       programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>             Sent by:
> >>> cc
> >>>             programmingblind-
> >>>             bounce@freelists.
> >>> Subject
> >>>             org                       Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>             11/28/2007 10:57
> >>>             AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>             Please respond to
> >>>             programmingblind@
> >>>               freelists.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>In my country there is a very well known yearly contest named
> >>>Internetics.
> >>>Well, most of the sites that get awards in that contest, are horrible
> >>>from
> >>>the point of view of the blind. So a contest only doesn't mean anything.
> >>>
> >>>Please tell us where can we see the web page made by that blind guy, and
> >>>I
> >>>will tell you if a blind person can do it without sighted help.
> >>>I've seen many messages on this list telling how cool web pages can a
> >>>blind
> >>>
> >>>do, with with no single example.
> >>>
> >>>Octavian
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:42 PM
> >>>Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi All,
> >>>>Where I consult, one of our fellow listers was on a team who won a very
> >>>>prestigious award. The team developed a highly visible web application.
> >>>>Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI interface for the site using
> >>>>HTML,
> >>>>CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508 and W3C techniques and the
> >>>sighted
> >>>>people in the company rave about it.
> >>>>
> >>>>I write this to urge anyone who thinks that someone who is blind cannot
> >>>>design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it.
> >>>>
> >>>>Jim
> >>>>
> >>>>James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> >>>>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
> >>>>
> >>>>"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change
> >>>>the
> >>>>world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
> >>>>
> >>>>__________
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> >
> > Tim
> > trouble
> > "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance."
> > --Sam Brown
> >
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-- 
When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
free."
Linus Torvalds
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