Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
- From: "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:04:30 -0700
Hi Matthew,
What type of business do you own?
How did you get into it?
I think it takes a lot of courage and a willing to take risk to run
your own business.
You can respond off list.
My e-mail is:
bneal@xxxxxxxx
Thank You
>>> "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx> 11/29/07 6:18 PM >>>
Oh oh, your cards are showing now. You're exhibiting cognitive deficits
in
thinking and over elaboration of another's statements leading your
emotions
and mind to reach poor conclusions and becoming angry simply based on
another's opinions. In other words, your comments are beginning to make
no
sense and you're getting angry.
Pity! Ha! I believe my blindness has given me more success to date than
may
have been possible for me at the age I lost my sight.
Matthew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
So we know by your post that blind people should
not be seen or even heard of. What a crock of
shit! Get off the pity trip. your blind so face the fact!
At 11:19 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote:
>Teddy,
>
>I think you really have to understand the culture here in the US.
There is
>nothing but one stupid reality show after another on television, each
>telling the average idiot who participates that they too can be the
next
>top singer, model, actor, and other meaningless crap. The fact of the
>matter is that most of those idiot participants do not possess the
talent
>to do anything artistic, but each of them has been told in American
books,
>television, songs, and movies that they too can all be the #1 XYZ if
they
>simply try. I think the same thing is going on in the blind community.
>Every rehab type of educational facility feels its reasonable and
>preferable to overinflate the blind student's sense of accomplishment.
This
>is a very bad mindset to put the average disabled person in because
they
>will end up chasing an impossible dream. I will grant you that there
are
>some truly talented blind individuals who may succeed in the sighted
world,
>but they are very few. I feel it is because sighted people overlook
>deficiencies in many disabled students and simply move them along. I
have
>also met blind students who play up their disability to engender
sympathy
>from sighted professors. This of course ultimately means a substandard
>employee who doesn't deserve to be in the position they are occupying.
>While on his media tour to sell his book, I remember I heard an
interview
>with that blind guy who climbed mount Everest a couple of years back.
The
>radio hosts were lavishing all this awe and amazement at this poor
blind
>person's impossible mission to the top of the world. this so called
hero to
>the blind and all people on the planet conveniently forgot to mention
to
>the radio hosts that he had a group of 15 people telling him where to
place
>his feet and hands essentially making his blindness an insignificant
matter
>of importance. By the way, it took him 2 months to climb to the top of
the
>mountain. I wonder how long it takes sighted people to make the same
>trek--I think its about 10 days. Why would I pay a blind person the
same
>amount of money to do average work when I can pay a sighted employee
to do
>the same work in 50% less time with greater quality output. My point,
blind
>people, please stop with the over inflated sense of self. Sighted
people
>are lavishing tremendous praise on blind people because they can't see
>themselves being able to do the same things if they were blind. the
fact of
>the matter is that if they too were blind and driven, they would find
a
>manner of getting the job done just the same--might not be done well,
but
>the job will get done eventually. those who question this post... pull
out
>your money (dollar bills), throw it on the ground, then quickly count
$16.
>As a blind person I know exactly what you have to do to accomplish
this
>goal so don't give me your: "I can do anything just as well as a
sighted
>person nonsense."
>
>Matthew
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita"
<orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>
>
>>Yes it is great, I didn't say that it is not.
>>I have also teached the blind users to use a computer, also teached
html
>>in a serial course on a mailing list for the blind in my country, and
I
>>think that the iT field is one of the most accessible fields for the
>>blind.
>>
>>But I said that I don't agree when I hear things like the fact that a
>>blind web designer can be as good as a sighted one.
>>
>>
>>Octavian
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon" <simoncwn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:58 PM
>>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>>
>>
>>>Oh my, Teddy, that's just so wrong. It really is. My first
impression
>>>when reading your mail was to go off on one, majorly. I won't, for
many
>>>reasons.
>>>Suffice to say, when people with Jeff's talent do such things they
>>>should be commended not have their achievements belittled. So much
is
>>>achieved, not just for Jeff, but for so many when things like that
>>>happens. It encourages the rest of us who want to get into web
>>>design/development, and it also raises the bar for blind people, no
>>>matter what field they are in. So well done Jeff, keep up the great
work.
>>>Cheers,
>>>Simon
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita"
>>><orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:32 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oh yes, that's true, and sometimes the screen reader doesn't even
show
>>>>us the correct colors, and even if it show us that 2 words come one
>>>>after another in the same line, it doesn't tell us that maybe the
first
>>>>is a static word in a iframe element and the other one is a text
written
>>>>dynamicly by a javascript code, and it might scroll slowly up or
down
>>>>becoming very confusing for us at a page refresh.
>>>>
>>>>I think we shouldn't fight for beeing what we can't be. Oh yes,
there
>>>>are handicapped people without a leg that participate in different
>>>>sports, showing that they can do more, but we all know that they
will
>>>>never be equal to a healthy person, no matter how good or bad he
is.
>>>>
>>>>And let's not forget that the productivity of the work is also
>>>>important. What we can do would have a very low value if we would
be
>>>>able to do it in a much longer period than a sighted designer.
>>>>
>>>>Octavian
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "inthaneelf"
>>>><inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:35 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>which except for rare occasions is not practical Marlon, since we
live
>>>>>in a sighted world, and the majority of folks that we are going to
need
>>>>>to deal with are sighted, I'm sorry that you have no experience in
the
>>>>>visual view of things, this is one area where I have an
advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>but... you can't avoid the visual world, it's out there, it's the
>>>>>majority, and so you might as well learn the tricks for dealing
with
>>>>>it, use the standards and templates when and where you can, and
do
>>>>>your best to adapt.
>>>>>
>>>>>the best description for trying to convey sight to a person that
has
>>>>>never had it, was spoken by a blind dude that never had sight in
his
>>>>>life,
>>>>>
>>>>>its the description I use now a days, since I have found myself
often
>>>>>trying to describe visual aspects to those who have never had
site.
>>>>>
>>>>>one thing you should do if you haven't, go to a web site, keep
yourself
>>>>>at the top of the page, and turn on the invisible cursor and go up
and
>>>>>down the page to see what it actually looks like, such as, the
that
>>>>>that instead of the vertical column that jaws presents us with,
that
>>>>>its actually more like a message written in Braille, including the
>>>>>navigation links which run from left to right across the page, not
in
>>>>>the vertical column that is presented to us.
>>>>>
>>>>>take care, and good luck,
>>>>>inthane
>>>>>. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs,
and
>>>>>Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
visit
>>>>>me at:
>>>>>http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>. to be able to view a simple programming project in several
>>>>>programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
>>>>>http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa"
>>>>><splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:01 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello folks,
>>>>>>Well I have never seen ... so I have no a ... let's call it ...
visual
>>>>>>standards so, although I can technically do it very well ... I
can not
>>>>>>plan, like imagine, build ... a nice visual interface, because I
don't
>>>>>>know what it is expected. A quick example is I beleaved gfirmly
that
>>>>>>the windows explorer put the folder treeview in the top and the
>>>>>>listview below it, and I couldn't beleave when a guy tould me
>>>>>>naturally that the treeview was in the left and the listview was
in
>>>>>>the right!!!!
>>>>>>Similarly, because of the top down aproach most part of screen
readers
>>>>>>use to present web content, I have dificulties to imagine hwat
exactly
>>>>>>sighted people expect to see in a webpage or something like
this.
>>>>>>I can plan the components of the interface, but deciding * and
putting
>>>>>>* them in the more "apropriate" place or planning what would
happen if
>>>>>>one changes their screen resolution or diicovering by teory how
>>>>>>browsers would react to it without testing is something very
>>>>>>different.
>>>>>>If I had been sighted (and lost my sight after the modern look
and
>>>>>>feel's I perhaps would be totally able to build interfaces based
on
>>>>>>the standards of what should be common to folks, but the only
thing I
>>>>>>can do for now is build an interface based on someone's
>>>>>>specifications. And even then I will spend eforts trying to
build
>>>>>>something which belongs to a group of situations that I can't
imagine
>>>>>>very well ... and, again, I wouldn't be able to test my own
work,
>>>>>>which seen something pretty nasty to any [programmer I know of
... now
>>>>>>the point is: For sure many blind folks can do gui's, but they
will
>>>>>>feel more confortable and be more productive if they're doing
>>>>>>something which has not a visual result as its goal ... which
should
>>>>>>be perfectly logical.
>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>Marlon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2007/11/28, jaffar <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>>>>>>Hi Jim. Excellent news. Congrats Jeff. Just shows what, if
you all
>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>>forgive the pun, application will do for one, not to mention
hard
>>>>>>>work and
>>>>>>>determination, and the willingness to try. Cheers!
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:42 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>> > Where I consult, one of our fellow
>>>>>>> listers was on a team who won a > very
>>>>>>> > prestigious award. The team developed a
>>>>>>> highly visible web > application.
>>>>>>> > Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI
>>>>>>> interface for the site using > HTML,
>>>>>>> > CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508
>>>>>>> and W3C techniques and the > sighted
>>>>>>> > people in the company rave about it.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I write this to urge anyone who thinks
>>>>>>> that someone who is blind > cannot
>>>>>>> > design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Jim
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
>>>>>>> > james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > "Never doubt that a thoughtful group of
>>>>>>> committed citizens can > change the
>>>>>>> > world. Indeed, it is the only thing
>>>>>>> that ever has." -- Margaret > Mead
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > __________
>>>>>>> > View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>__________
>>>>>>>View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people
just
>>>>>>stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system,
for
>>>>>>free."
>>>>>>Linus Torvalds
>>>>>>__________
>>>>>>View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Tim
trouble
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
substance."
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