Re: Team Excellence Award Winner

Yes you are perfectly right. That's why I said that it doesn't matter my opinion, but it matters the opinion of the masses. If a certain design is considered nice and it attracts many visitors and the owner of the site earns a lot of money, then that design is excelent, no matter if it is absolutely inaccessible for the blind, or if it doesn't follow the design rules or W3C's recommendations.


Of course that I would not like such a site, but I would like to have one that produces millions of dollars just because its design is great.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


See the thing is what looks good is only a matter of opinion. Even the most beautiful artwork can look like crap to another. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


Sorry but where have you seen "excelent design" made by a blind?

Have you really seen an "excelent design" made by a sighted to be able to make the difference?

How can a blind person that had never seen a design made by a sighted can tell that a blind person can make a design of the same quality if he cannot compare?

Many sighted persons told me that they are amazed about the things I do, but these opinions have no value, because their most important reason for those opinions are the fact that I am blind, and they cannot imagine that I can even work on a computer.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Léonie Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Team Excellence Award Winner


Jaffar,

Thank you very much. You make a very good point about extending
ourselves to equal, if not match, sighted designers.

It's also worth remembering that few designers, sighted or
otherwise, work entirely in a vacuum. Most will seek opinions, ask for help tracking down bugs, and work with colleagues to find solutions. Essentially,
there's no difference in any other respect other than the kind of help we
seek or the questions we ask.


I couldn't agree more with your comments in another email. Work like
Geoff's should be applauded and welcomed. Good design should be applauded no
matter who was behind it, the fact that it's a VI guy is just that little
bit more excellent.


Regards,
Léonie.

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of jaffar
Sent: 28 November 2007 23:26
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner

Hi Leonie.  My neece who is a graphic designer and who is sighted took a
look at your website and compared it favorably to some of the corporate
websites designed here in singapore by sighted designers.  That, i think,
says a lot for those of us who are blind who have really taken time to study web layouts through the use of css. It is hard, but it is not impossible.
Yes the sighted will always have the advantage of sight, but if we are
willing to extend ourselves, we will have the advantage of making full use of the tools that we learn to utilize and adapt, and if we can't be better
than them, we can at least be their equal.  Cheers!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Léonie Watson" <tink@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:20 AM
Subject: RE: Team Excellence Award Winner


Teddy,

At the risk of opening myself up for comments based on whether you *like the
designs or not, please take a look at my website.
http://www.tink.co.uk/

It was developed by myself, with no visual assistance. I am completely
blind.

The site has three visual looks. The layout, colour scheme and artwork
differs for each skin. You can select the skin you prefer through the style
switcher.

Regards,
Léonie.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
Sent: 28 November 2007 19:46
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner

teddy, the old point that this references is that this blind gentlemen...
made a website that is compliant to the accessibility standards... and was
given an award by sighted reviewers, *sigh*

I...
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


In my country there is a very well known yearly contest named Internetics.
Well, most of the sites that get awards in that contest, are horrible
from the point of view of the blind. So a contest only doesn't mean
anything.

Please tell us where can we see the web page made by that blind guy,
and I will tell you if a blind person can do it without sighted help.
I've seen many messages on this list telling how cool web pages can a
blind do, with with no single example.

Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner



Hi All,
Where I consult, one of our fellow listers was on a team who won a
very prestigious award. The team developed a highly visible web
application.
Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI interface for the site using
HTML, CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508 and W3C techniques and
the sighted people in the company rave about it.

I write this to urge anyone who thinks that someone who is blind
cannot design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it.

Jim

James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810

"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change
the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret
Mead

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