[PA28235] Re: mogas
- From: PilotKris@xxxxxxx
- To: pa28235@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:36:58 EDT
Well Jay...
Since you seam to feel the need to attack me personally (one of the reasons
I almost never post what might be useful information to others), let me
respond your attacks.
It is clear you didn't even bother to read thoroughly my post.
I never said that AvGas was "better quality" than MoGas. What I said was
there is an FAA mandated, dedicated supply chain that provides the AvGas that
is
pumped at the airports. Quality control exists all points. That doesn't mean
it's "higher quality" but it does provide assurance that you are getting what
you think you're getting. No such QC exists at your local "HyVee".
What happens if the guy filling the tanks (at the refinery, at the
distribution depot, the driver of the delivery truck, at the station, etc.)
accidentally dumps a few hundred gallons of diesel, or ethanol, or whatever
into the
fuel that ended up in your tank? It's VERY easy to do. Even if the station
knew
of the mix-up, do you think they will dispose of the gas (huge HAZMAT issues
and expense) or would they just keep pumping knowing that it "probably won't
hurt anything" (and it probably won't hurt...A CAR).
The information I brought to the attention of the group for their
consideration so that they can be informed of all the issues concerning the
use of
MoGas. Not just the one-sided opinions of some.
I only provided FACTS not opinions in my post.(except for the part about
MoGas smelling bad, that was my opinion). You sir, only provided your
(obviously
biased) opinions.
Let me reiterate a few of the FACTS and add more FACTS.
1. If you are going to use MoGas per a STC, YOU MUST FOLLOW ALL OF THE
PROCEDURES IN THE STC (every MoGas STC I have seen requires that every drop of
fuel you put in your plane be tested for alcohol). The purchase of a piece of
paper and a couple of stickers is just the beginning.
2. The differences between MoGas and AvGas go far beyond the octane rating
and lead content.
3. The company that designed and built the O-540-B4B5, Lycomming, DOES NOT
APPROVE OF THE USE OF ANY FUEL OTHER THAN 80/87, 100LL, 100/130 AVGAS...
PERIOD. They go so far as to say the use of any "unspecified fuel" (and MoGas
from
the HyVee certainly counts as unspecified) requires inspection of the engine
by "competent maintenance personnel" (read teardown).
4. If you are going to transport fuel, you must follow all of the
requirements of your local fire department including using proper containers
and
procedures.
Those are the FACTS not opinions or personal experiences. I actually did the
research prior to forming my opinion. My sources included:
FAA
My local BP distributor
My local fire department
Textron Lycomming (read Service Letter L185B and Service Bulletin 398)
Piper
Now my opinions and observations:
I feel that the plug fouling issues to be combinations of poor operation of
the engine(s) and poor maintenance. In almost 3,000 of flying, I've only had
one lead-fouled plug and that was my own fault (too long between cleanings).
No A&P or I.A. I consider competent enough to work on my plane would even
think of suggesting an owner/operator use MoGas. My I.A. had gone so far as to
say he won't work on a plane that uses MoGas (he thinks it stinks too).
I feel that most people using MoGas are thinking with there wallets, not
their heads. They also tend to rationalize the use of MoGas by claiming it's
somehow "better" than AvGas.
While there might be some people out there who are doing it correctly, I've
never seen a pilot who follows all the MoGas STC procedures and I've seen many
pilots do things that are down right dangerous like transport fuel in the
trunk of their car in used paint thinner cans.
I WILL NOT USE MOGAS IN MY PLANE NOR WILL I FLY/INSTRUCT IN A PLANE THAT HAS
USED MOGAS. I won't expose my family to the potential risks it brings to
save a few bucks.
Besides, how egotistical would I be to think I know better than the people
who designed and built the motor?...
But I'm just a 3,000 hour CSEL. CMEL, CFI, MEI. What do I know...
In a message dated 7/11/2006 9:20:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jbenson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
jjhoneck@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> This post is TOTALLY untrue, and ranks as one of the most uninformed posts
I've
> ever seen on this group.
>
> 1. There is no requirement to use anything higher than 87 octane regular
> unleaded gas with our Cherokee 235 STC.
>
> 2. The low compression O-540 was designed to run on 80 octane avgas -- a
fuel
> that is no longer available. By using 100LL in your plane, you are using
a gas
> that it was never designed to use.
>
> 3. 100LL has 4 times more lead in it than 80 octane gas. This is why you
must
> lean your engine severely in order to NOT foul spark plugs when you run
with
> 100LL avgas.
>
> I'm just astounded when I read misinformation like this. Given all the
> problems caused by 100LL, how did it EVER develop that some pilots today
still
> believe that 100LL is somehow "better" for your plane than car gas?
Nothing
> (and I mean NOTHING) could be further from the truth.
>
> What's even funnier is the statement that it's somehow "better quality"
gas.
> The local HyVee gas station where I fill my transfer tank pumps more gas
PER
> DAY than my airport pumps all YEAR. Let's talk about what happens to
aviation
> gasoline that sits in a big metal tank for 11 months, shall we?
>
> Then let's go down the road to discuss FAA approval of mogas in airplanes.
> This is the same organization that we all bitch about for being so anal
that
> they won't let us use a non-approved light bulb in our plane -- yet, for
some
> reason, people think that they were wild-eyed lunatics when they approved
the
> use of car gas in aircraft? Does anyone REALLY believe that the FAA
didn't
> check mogas thoroughly (beyond thoroughly!) prior to approval?
>
> If you want to spend an extra $15 per hour on a fuel that can actually
harm
> your engine (100LL), have at it. But don't spread misinformation like
this to
> other 235 drivers, please.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [PA28235] Re: mogas
> From:
> PilotKris@xxxxxxx
> Date:
> Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:16:19 +0000
> To:
> pa28235@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To:
> pa28235@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> OK OK,
>
> Enough is enough on the MoGas deal.
>
> Everyone seams to be forgetting that you MUST follow all of the STC
> requirements which include using SUPER unleaded gas. That is not that
> much cheeper than AvGas, around here it's only about $.50 per gallon.
> You also MUST test the MoGas for alcohol. Who is actually doing that?
> For EVERY purchase?
>
> I know a guy who's so proud of the $ he saves buying MoGas, I then found
> out he buys it at the cheapest "brand-X" station around. I'd doubt that
> he's even getting 91 octane.
>
> What about the stability of MoGas (especially for those storring large
> quanities). I've had many tanks of MoGas "go-bad" in cars, boats,
> motorcycles but never a load of AvGas.
>
> There are MANY differences between 100LL and MoGas that go beyond just
> the octane. Oh, and let's not forget that the differences vary BY DESIGN
> for the seasons.
>
> The biggest reason AvGas costs more than MoGas is quality control. There
> MUST be a totally dedicated supply chain that extends from the refinery
> all the way to your airplane. The fuel CANNOT be pumped via a pipeline
> or even carried in a truck that has ever had MoGas before. Can your
> local Brand-X station say the same about their "super" unleaded?
>
> Oh, and do I even start about varpor-lock problems?
>
> I'll gladly pay the extra $7.00 an hour for the extra security provided
> by AvGas...
>
> (Besides, MoGas STINKS!)
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