Ron; Why do you think it's an ATSC issue? The same rules apply to DVB, ARIB, ATSC and any other MPEG private users that may arise in the future. I note that you jump to blaming ATSC. 1) because they have to, per MPEG rules, at least I've been told. 2) I don't know what a pink ticket is, because the only thing that is pink is the duplicate (carbon) copy of the letter placed in the station's file. However, it's the same color as any other carbon copy placed in the station file. The answer to 2 is no, not yet. However, it's arguable that the issue will arise. Stations have to follow ATSC rules, which are enshrined in ATSC specs, and which are embodied in large part in FCC rules. ATSC specs refer to, or are normative to MPEG specs. Who wants to be the first case? John Willkie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Economos" <k6mpg@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:19 AM Subject: [opendtv] Re: News: Those licenses will soon be worthless... > A couple of questions: > 1) Why does ATSC even care about PID values, given > that no dual mode (ATSC/DVB) receiver exists or > would ever be built? > > 2) If a DTV station were to continue using PID's below > 0x30, would they ever receive a citation (pink ticket) from > the FCC? > > Ron > > > John Willkie wrote: > > >Okay, the first item was a poke. As to the other items, I think we will > >have to agree to disagree, because there is no need to belabor our points: > >time will tell. > > > >However, I object strongly enough to the following to object: > > > > > > > >>You should understand this better than anyone. If they can't get > >>something as simple as PSIP right, how the hell are they going to use > >>demographic data to drive customized ads to specific sub markets, > >>much less individuals? > >> > >> > > > >Sure, it can be tough -- with the current divide between encoders and > >multiplexers and PSIP generators to get MPEG-2 PSI and PSIP both right and > >consistent with each other, and consistent with the elementary streams. > > > >But, it's too early to blame the broadcasters for this problem. I was > >careful at the show to talk to most of, if not all of, the companies in the > >encoder and transport stream test and measurement field. Since PSI and PSIP > >is all I know, I spotted all sorts of out-of compliance encoders and t&m > >gear that were analyzing transport streams that were out of spec with MPEG-2 > >and DVB and ATSC. > > > >I have to be real careful here, and I offer a caveat: I can only mention > >the name of "bad actors" with whom I have no chance of sale/strategic > >alliance. Sometimes, what prevents a deal is a problem they have with me, > >other times, what prevents a deal is a problem with them, and in some cases, > >it's a problem with both. > > > >Encoders: > >Ligos Corporation showed an encoder that permitted, in ATSC mode, elementary > >streams on any pid from 16 to 8190. The minimum permitted now is 48; the > >maximum permitted per ATSC is around 1000 (I don't have the spec in front of > >me, and I wrote that part some months and years back. The engineer told me > >"we wrote to the spec." And, I said "you didn't use the right spec on the > >upside, and on the downside, the spec changed effective January 1, 2005." > > > >DoReMi's president interrupted me in the middle of a 6 second question. > >He's tied with two others for my a**hole of the show award. > > > >Optibase told me that they would consider my solution to pid remapping when > >I brought them a customer. (Ain't my job, and it won't happen in this > >lifetime.) Ofem something or another is another tied honoree. I did get > >them back; I leaned (twice) on their plasma displays. I hope my handprints > >were there through the show. > > > >t&m > >Every t&m company whose wares I sampled was showing out of compliance (per > >MPEG-2, or ATSC or DVB) transport streams, usually on the "minimum pid >= 48 > >issue." Not a single one of them flagged this issue. They would try to go > >into another emission mode to solve the problem, but it's an MPEG-2 issue, > >not an ATSC, DVB or ARIB one. > > > >It would be imprudent (and potentially costly) for me to identify these > >firms: I'm talking to most if not all about licensing my PSI/PSIP t&m > >system. I will say that I did not look to see f the Videotek monitors had > >this issue, nor did I visit the Wegener booth. I did talk to the "usual > >suspects" and found this is a widespread problem. > > > >So; > > > >If the encoders enable you to send out-of-compliance transport streams, and > >the test and measurement gear doesn't flag out of complaince elementary > >streams and program map table instances, how can one blame broadcasters -- > >many, if not most are now in compliance with the minimum pid issue often > >through kludges (program_number 1 on pid 48) -- for not detecting the > >problem. > > > >John Willkie > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.