[modeleng] Re: Valve Gear Modifications
- From: "BarriePurslow" <Barrie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:30:59 -0000
Rich.,
> ...that does all assume that...
>
> 1) Winson didn't make any mods at any time, and that Ian's valve gear
> parts are the same as the Winson loco's of the same type that you've seen
> run.
Agreed
> 2) That the valve gear parts that Ian has are actually for the loco that
> he has (if I was Winson's designer I would have tried to standardise valve
> gear pin and bush sizes, which might have the unfortunate effect of making
> valve gear parts fit on different loco's, but would have had the effect of
> making them not work.).
They didn't work like that - for the most part they simply copied existing
designs. They were producing fairly large numbers of kits (First batch of
Brits, 75. First batch of 14xx, 200) so they weren't deeply into
standardising. Discreet fittings like clacks, snifting valves and injectors
were used across the range of models.
Cheers,
Barrie Purslow
Warrington UK
>
> Yours,
>
>
> Rich.
>
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, BarriePurslow wrote:
>
> > Ian,
> >
> > I have seen several of these engines run using the original Winson
bits -
> > O.K. they don't have four square beats but they do run. Therefore I
suggest
> > that your engine has been incorrectly assembled somewhere along the
line.
> > The following runs the risk of teaching granny to suck eggs but it's the
> > best I can think of:-
> >
> > I suggest that first of all you check that the return cranks are
correctly
> > set i.e. the big end of the eccentric rod is 90 degrees behind the
crankpin
> > when running forward.
> >
> > I then suggest that, working on one side of the engine at a time, you
> > connect rubber tubes to the draincocks and place their open ends in
water.
> > Using the reverser set the radius rod in mid gear then rotate the wheels
> > until the combination lever and radius rod are at right angles. The
piston
> > valve should now be in the middle of it's travel and you can check this
by
> > applying a few psi of air to the engine and observing the submerged
tubes. A
> > small leakage flow should come from each tube. Rocking the engine
slightly
> > back and forwards equal amounts should crack the piston valve first one
way
> > then the other. If this is not the case adjust the position of the
bobbin on
> > the piston valve rod until it is.
> >
> > The engine should now run. If it doesn't the problem is almost certainly
> > leakage between the piston valve liners and the cylinder bodies.
> >
> > If you wish to check the dimensions of the relevant bits of valve gear I
can
> > probably scan the relevant parts of the Perrier drawings and email them
to
> > you off list - just ask.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Barrie Purslow
> > Warrington UK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pendragon" <idpriest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 4:17 PM
> > Subject: [modeleng] Re: Valve Gear Modifications
> >
> >
> > > Barrie,
> > >
> > > By any chance re the replacement parts were there any changes to the
> > > eccentric rod and or the valve bobbin or I suppose thinking about it
the
> > > width of the valves on the bobbin....I fear that the eccentric rod I
> > > have is too long and and the valve bobbin too short.
> > >
> > > My understaning of walsharts is that providing the parts are made
> > > correctly then the system should work well, and that a pooly designed
> > > system will not work well and or a pooly made correctly designed
system
> > > will not work. Now then as I regard that my workmanship is good and
> > > better than most amateur engineers and that I have bushed the original
> > > Winsons bits and bobs out so that there I little or no play then the
> > > only thing to deduce as to why it will not run correctly is that the
> > > design was poor to start with.
> > >
> > > If you can be of any assistance I'd be gratful, I am reluctant to
remove
> > > the liners from the cylinders [I didn't fit them] and I believe they
> > > have been glued in place, this makes measuring the internal orifices /
> > > distance between ports and port dimensions difficult to say the
> > > least.........if I hade these measurements I might be able to redesign
> > > to at least make an acceptable running engine............ah well might
> > > be something to do on Christmas morning!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > I have never seen the Perrier drawings I take it there is considerable
> > > difference to the Winsons version.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > IP
> > >
> > > Priest & Sons Model Engineers
> > > http://www.kinvermes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/p1.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of BarriePurslow
> > > Sent: 05 December 2004 13:28
> > > To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [modeleng] Re: Valve Gear Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Ian,
> > >
> > > I received the Winson valve gear mods for my Brit. I tried them on the
> > > engine but could not notice any difference. The basic problem I had
was
> > > the abyssmal design of piston valves allowing leakage between the
> > > bobbins and the liners also leakages between the liners and cylinder
> > > body.
> > >
> > > I am at a loss to understand why you need the reverser in full reverse
> > > gear to get it to go forward. Although I do recall that the thread on
> > > the worm drive was R.H. and I changed it to L.H.....but you're not
that
> > > daft?
> > >
> > > The best advice I can offer is to build it to the Perrier drawings.
The
> > > Winson Brit was based on these - they bastardised, sorry,
productionised
> > > it!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Barrie Purslow
> > > Warrington UK
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pendragon" <idpriest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 10:41 PM
> > > Subject: [modeleng] Valve Gear Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > > > Greetings all,
> > > >
> > > > Saga of the Winsons Brit continues. I have just spent about two
hours
> > >
> > > > trying to set the valve gear on only one side of the engine. I can
> > > > just about get it managable providing the reverser is in 100% back
> > > > when I want to get the loco goinf forwards .....no I haven't got any
> > > > of the bits in the wrong place or set in the wrong quadrant...not
> > > > quite that daft yet!
> > > >
> > > > I am aware that Winsons had problems with this valve gear and
> > > > developed a modification, has anyone get any details.
> > > >
> > > > Regards IP
> > > >
> > > > Priest & Sons Model Engineers
> > > > http://www.kinvermes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/p1.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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