[lit-ideas] Re: Nigerian gun control as an example for us
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:17:57 -0700
Tis mind boggling, isn't it Mike. I wonder how people killed each other
before they had guns . . . You don't really suppose they did kill each
other back then, do you?
As to the "peace" I was attributing to you, I used that word to describe the
following statement by you:
"Wrong again. Can't you gun nuts get anything right? The police would not
be allowed to carry guns (or even own them) in my world. There would
probably have to be a SWAT unit, but it would be very select and very, very
well trained. But they would doubtless be as lonely as the Maytag
repairman. There's no reason for anyone to have a gun if no one else has a
gun. So you can relax, Lawrence, policemen will be your friends."
Surely if SWAT teams are as infrequently used as Maytag repairmen and
unarmed policemen are our friends, it isn't too much of a reach to describe
the ambient society as a peaceful one. No more drug busts, no more irate
drunken drivers shooting policemen along lonely roads, no more undercover
DEA operations, no more smuggling, no more terrorism . . . I could anecdote
on and on based upon your fantasy.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Geary
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 4:18 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nigerian gun control as an example for us
LH:
> Not at all. Mike said that if you created draconian gun laws peace would
> inevitably follow.
Assuming that the laws are not full of loopholes (which current gun control
laws are), and that they are uniform across the country (which our gun
control laws definitely are not) and that they are vigorously enforced,
which is a laugh at this time. Laws, of course, really only exist in the
enforcement.
But even with all that, I never mentioned peace. Less likelihood of being
blown away by a road rage wacko, yes. Less likely to kill your own kid
who's sneaking into the house at 3:00 am, yes. Less likelihood of blowing
away a Halloween trick-or-treater, yes. Less likely that one of your kids
will find your gun and accidentally kill a sibling or friend, yes. Less
likelihood of you shooting your wife or she you, yes. Less likelihood your
wife will set her purse down on a counter in a store and her pistol goes off
and kills a by-stander, yes. And on and on and on and on. Oh, the
anecdotes I could anecdote you with.
Mike Geary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nigerian gun control as an example for us
> You pin a lot on
> Nigeria: Logical Fallacy of Hasty Generalization?)
>
Nigeria created draconian gun laws and peace did not
> follow.
>
> Lawrence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Judith Evans
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:45 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nigerian gun control as an example for us
>
>> I did read it. It wasn't to the point of our discussion on
> gun-control.
>> Nigeria had and has very stringent gun control laws. The
> article doesn't
>> counter that. My argument was that gun control doesn't work.
>
> the article gives reasons why gun control doesn't work in
> Nigeria. (You pin a lot on
> Nigeria: Logical Fallacy of Hasty Generalization?)
>
>> Guns will always be available from some place. Make them
> illegal and you'll
>> have an illegal gun trade.
>
> Murders will always happen, but we have laws against them.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:32 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nigerian gun control as an example for
> us
>
>
>> I did read it. It wasn't to the point of our discussion on
> gun-control.
>> Nigeria had and has very stringent gun control laws. The
> article doesn't
>> counter that. My argument was that gun control doesn't work.
> Make all the
>> laws you want and guns aren't going to go away. Some of my
> notes discussed
>> how easy it was to get or even make a gun. Mike thought his
> Draconian
>> $50,000 fine for gun possession would do the trick. I used
> Nigeria as an
>>
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