[lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot

  • From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:04:22 EST

I'm trying to figure out in what bizarre sense Hussein was an icon of  
militant Islam, considering that he was a secularist who oppressed the  
religiously 
conservative Shi'ites.
 
Julie Krueger

========Original  Message========     Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot  Date: 
1/1/2007 6:52:21 P.M. Central Standard Time  From: _lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx)   To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent on:    

Simon: 
You have made a series  of assertions on a subject I’m not particularly 
interested in.  You imply  that intelligence would comprise my accepting your 
assertions unchecked.   Blind acceptance of unsupported assertions is not well 
known as a sign of  intelligence. 
    1.  For example, did the courts decree  that the Shia militia carry out 
the execution?  Were there  alternatives?  Who should have done it?  Who  
cares? 
    1.  Was his death filmed like some of  the deaths Saddam filmed?  Again, 
who cares?  
    1.  Was the judicial system under  Iraq’s control?  If so, who  cares 
whether it meets your standards of  impartiality? 
    1.  You say Saddam was verbally  taunted and insulted – was that worse 
than you are verbally taunting and  insulting me or better? 
    1.  It took place during the Muslim  Hajj and the Sunni Eid, you say?  
Did it also take place at the end of a  legitimate trial?  
    1.  And you note that the  US military was responsible for the  guarding 
of the living Saddam.  Was that before he was turned over to the  Iraqi 
Judicial system for trial?  I fail to see why this should interest  anyone.  
The US  
military has guarded virtually everything in Iraq at one  time or another.  
    1.  You say the whole event can only  incite further hatred between the 
Shia and Sunni?  You imply that we  shouldn’t allow the Iraqis to execute one 
of the worst criminals in their  history because it might make someone mad?  Is 
that what you are  saying?  Shall we make this a principle:  Execute no one 
if it will  make someone mad.   In response to this possibility I did a Google  
search to find out who was being incited thus far.  So far it’s a few  
relatives and some people from his home town.  When is the rest of the  
incitement 
supposed to take place. 
7.a.   But you probably mean a lot of someone’s.  You probably quantify the  
holding up of an execution.  If a certain number will be made angry by the  
execution of someone, then the execution shall not take place – even if it 
means 
 we renege on our telling the Iraqis they have control over their own courts, 
 government, etc and are trying to turn everything else over to them as 
quickly  as possible?   
7.b.   Tell you what went perfectly?   Has someone established a standard for 
 perfection in Iraq?    
7.c.   However, I will say this.  In the war against Militant Islam, the Bush 
 & Blair administrations has done surprisingly well.  On the one hand we  
have the destruction of the World Trade  Center.  We have also  Osama’s 
speeches 
indicating that he believed the US too timid,  too afraid of the loss of life 
to mount an effective counter to his Islamist  ideals.  Osama joined others in 
declaring war against the West, ala Sayyid  Qutb.  Others joined in taunting 
and insulting the US and Britain. 
7.d.   The US agreed that we were at  war and eliminated Afghanistan as a 
Militant Islamic  threat 
7.e.   Influenced Pakistan to quit supporting Militant  Islam and support us 
instead 
7.f.  Influenced Libya in to abandoning its nuclear  weapon program 
7.g.  Removed one of the Icons of Militant Islam, Saddam Hussein by defeating 
his army  and arresting him 
7.h.  Saddam when turned over to Iraqis was executed. 
8.  The U.S. and its allies have a good deal  to be proud of.  The gauntlet 
was thrown by militant Islam and was picked  up and responded to.  We have done 
much better than Militant Islam has  done.  They operated out of prejudice 
and ignorance.  They had a low  opinion of our abilities and will have learned 
(if they can somehow avoid  reading Leftist analyses of these matters) that 
things are not going well for  them.  And what shall we do now?  Shall we 
listen 
to the Leftist  Chicken Littles who cry and tell us we must surrender for we 
have been defeated  when all the rest of the world including our enemies can 
see that we have  not?  Or shall we somehow learn who it is we’re fighting, 
and 
how we must  combat them?   Oh some of us know, but too many don’t – or as 
in 
the  case of the Leftists, won’t. 
Lawrence 
 
  
____________________________________

From:  lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:38  PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max  Boot
 
Let's try it really slowly Lawrence, your attempt at  unintelligence is just 
too convincing.
 

 
1. It's not the fact of Saddam's death that's at issue,  but the manner of it.
 

 
2. It was carried out by the Shia  militia.
 

 
3. His death was filmed in a similar manner to some of  the Islamist 
executions.
 

 
4. It took place with no attempt at judicial  impartiality.
 

 
5. He was verbally taunted and  insulted.
 

 
5. It took place during the Muslim  Hajj.
 

 
6. It took place on the Sunni Eid (Thanks  Judith).
 

 
7. The US military (responsible for guarding the once  living Saddam) must 
have given him over to his executors just as they  subseqently received his 
body 
from them.
 

 
8. The whole event can only incite further hatred  between the Shia and Sunni.
 

 

 
Now tell me it went  perfectly.

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