I haven't been following it in the paper either. I thought there was an Iraqi trial. I thought there were an Iraqi Judge and an Iraqi Jury. I thought the U.S. had turned Saddam over to the Iraqis. That's what I got from the headlines I scanned. You seem awfully excited about this and I don't know why - not that I'm terribly interested - don't get the wrong idea. Leftists seem able to make "one almighty balls up" out of almost anything. Yawn. What do the actuarial tables have to say about brutal dictators? I wonder how many of them spend their golden years beneath the leaves of their own fig tree. I dug my newspaper out of the trash and read the captions under the photos of happy Iraqis. Good stuff. I like happy Iraqis. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 2:51 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot Since you haven't read previous posts, let me copy and paste what I said earlier. Perhaps it'll do as a starter. "...it's not the fact that Saddam was a monster that should be discussed. He was, and I wouldn't present an argument against the notion that he deserved the death penalty (unless it was couched in terms of the humanity or not of such penalties). Rather we should think about the utter stupidity of handing him over to the Shia Militia to carry out the sentence. If justice was to be served by such a penalty then it should have been carried out with the utmost gravity and impartiality. Instead we heard the executioners shouting insults and taunts. Next we'll hear is that the US military and Bush had nothing to do with the proceedings: despite the fact that the US military was guarding him before and flew his body away after. Add to that the timing of the event - in the middle of the Muslim Hajj - and you have one almighty balls up." Simon ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot I haven't been following your "Saddam" discussions. Since you are implying in your note below that his execution was a mistake, I might assume you are logically (if you were inclined toward being logical; which you demonstrably are not) consistent with your earlier leftist (and non-Liberal) assertions that it would have been preferable to leave this brutal dictator in place. As to his execution, I believe the Iraqis did that. Are you saying they shouldn't have? Based upon what? Your opposition to the Death penalty? Your admiration of Dictators in general and this one in particular? Too soon to give the Iraqis the right to come to their own conclusions about him? Doesn't sound like an interesting subject. But of course I made that determination some time ago when I elected not to read any of the messages. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 2:02 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot So that's a no for Saddam's demise then? Too difficult to defend? Too embarrassing a mistake? Or do you like the notion of raw revenge and how that will enrage the Arab and Muslim world? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 9:55 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot Simon writes, As for my [lack of] success in debates with Lawrence, memory suggests that it has been him either using dodgy debating tactics [like using logic] or else just plain leaving rather than me on the fire and burn. Right, well I do confess to "just plain leaving" after you demonstrated not only a lack of understanding of the rules of logic but an insistence that logic should be ignored in order to allow the debate to continue. Lawrence _____