Democracy in Iraq is a fantasy. The Kurds are gone. They never were really in Iraq except nominally, and they're all but independent now. Iraq was never really a country, just three, really two, factions with centuries long grievances against each other, held together by Saddam. But who knew that when we invaded, right? If they knew, who did they think was going to be throwing the flowers and why no plan to keep these factions at least placated? At most Iraq might a loose confederation of two partitioned states. If it stays one state, Iran will be the real winner, because the whole area will be a Shiite dominated theocracy. If it splits in two, Iran will have only the southern part. Either way, democracy marched out the door and straight into Iran's lap. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 9/12/2006 11:36:34 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Five Years Ago That?s one of the dumbest things I?ve heard all month, Irene. In your fervor to blame America for everything, you keep yourself ignorant of the Islamists actions in Egypt (Qutb, executed in 1966, was the intellectual of the Muslim Brothers, the prototype Islamist organization). In Iran in 1980, Khomeini called for Jihad against Iraq which resulted in the death of 1,000,000). In Algeria in 1992 the FIS called for a Jihad that ultimately resulted in the death of 200,000). And you are overwhelmed by 10,000 who aren?t even dead yet? Pshaw. Do you know that ordinary Baathist insurgents, the ones who ought to be tried with Saddam, aren?t Jihadists? They are ordinary insurgents. Do you know the difference? Who in the region of Iraq would care if Iraq became a viable democracy? Do you think everyone round about is neutral about that? Maybe it won?t succeed, but if it does, if Iraq becomes a viable democracy, then all the nations round about with their anti-democratic tyrannies, will feel threatened. Why will they feel threatened, Irene? Because Iraq will have moved in the direction of Liberalism. It will have made a step or two toward becoming a Liberal Democracy. The tyrannies will feel that their days are numbered, and they will be. That is why the tyrannies like Iran and Syria are encouraging troops to go across their borders to fight against democracy in Iraq. Leftists too hate democracy so they are rooting (like you are, Irene) for democracy?s enemies. Do you recall what it means to be a Liberal Democracy? Any Liberal who understood what it meant to be a Liberal supported Liberal Democracy. Shoot, I believe in Liberal Democracy so that makes me a Liberal. What do you believe in Irene? You hate Liberal Democracy. You hate the idea that Iraq might become a Liberal Democracy. You support Liberal-Democracy?s enemies. Iraq might fail to become a democracy, but it will have been a noble effort to have encouraged the Iraqis who wanted to make the attempt, who thought they could succeed. And if it does fail, those who hate freedom, who hate Liberal Democracy, who hate America, who supported those who undermined the Iraqi government?s efforts, will be able to claim victory. You?ll be able to claim victory then, Irene. But in the meantime many of us are pulling for the Iraqi government to succeed. We are attempting to get Iran and Syria to quit sending men to undermine the Iraqi-governments efforts. Of course there is no hope of shutting up the bleating, anti-American Leftists: one of the downsides of freedom. Lawrence