[geocentrism] Re: Ancient calendars-Velikovsky
- From: "Gary Shelton" <garylshelton@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:36:00 -0600
Carl,
One other thing that was interesting about Velikovsky I recall was his
research on the 360 day calendar and how it began about the time of Isaiah,
or thereabouts. Before that there was a 360 day calendar. After that, 5
"Gatha" days were added to the calendar to make the solstices and equinoxes
all jive.
Velikovsky submitted that we shouldn't hold the ancients in such disrepect
to believe that they wouldn't have figured out a problem with their calendar
before this time of Isaiah.
The time of Isaiah was also, of course, the time of Hezekiah and his extra
15 years, and this was also the time of Mars' close approach to the earth,
causing (as V.postulated) the change in the sundial shadow.
Since it was supposedly written about the same time, Homer's Illiad drew
Velikovsky's attention. Upon close analysis, Velikovsky felt it was a huge
analogy depicting a cosmic battle. All the planets had names. Jupiter was
Zeus and Venus was Athena and was reputed to be "Zeus's offspring" thereby
bringing about the speculation that she was emitted from the Great Red Spot
of Jupiter.
Mars (Ares) and the earth (Hera) did battle and Athena warned Aphrodite (the
moon) to keep out of the fray.
Possibly, Velikovsky stated, the moon did at one time have ten equal months
of 30 days each before this time.
I'm no expert, but this is a very fascinating subject.
Velikovsky's writings were really all one big book entitled "Ages in Chaos",
as that was the theme of his entire body of works. "Worlds in Collision"
was the first in the series and every book that followed was just another
piece of the puzzle in that enormous re-writing of ancient history that
Velikovsky undertook. His last book "Ramses II and His Time" showed
Velikovsky being a bit scared off by the critics, perhaps. He almost named
it Ramses II and Nebuchadnezzar but he thought the uproar would be more than
he could bear.
Ramses II supposedly lived about 1300 BC and Nebuchadnezzar more like 600
BC. They couldn't possibly have been contemporaries...or could they? The
Battle of Carchemesh (614 BC.) was supposedly where Nebbie beat Ramses'
backside and became the new kid on the block.
Velikovsky made some errors. He can't be taken without a grain of salt.
But I say this again for the record. Right or wrong, his works vouched for
the Bible timeline, while bringing to the world's attention the megolithic
errors of the Egyptian timeline. And remember, the import of using the
Egyptian timeline for modern scholars is that the Bible is disregarded as an
unimportant writing by an insignifigant group of Hebrew slaves that was
never a big deal to the mighty Egyptians. This was plainly not so because
the Assyrians and Chaldeans and ancient Greeks all verified the Biblical
stories despite the fact that the Egyptians did not. Yet somehow, the
Egyptian timeline is what we still use.
David Rohl is a force in this subject today.
Sincerely,
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Felland" <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:23 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Ancient calendars-Velikovsky
> Hi Gary,
> I appreciate your welcome and your sharing your knowledge of
> Velikovsky's works. I have much to learn. I have read only Worlds in
> Collision, but have ordered several other of his books from ebay. These
> other books have not yet arrived because I did not want to pay for
> airmail from England... Now, whether I have fallen in love with his
> writings, I'm not sure. But, I surely don't want to discount his
> information.
>
> Carl
>
>
> Gary Shelton wrote:
>
> >Hello Carl, and welcome.
> >
> >I might be one of the few people who can say he totally fell into love
with
> >Velikovsky's writings. I read every one of his books, I believe, and
found
> >him thoroughly fascinating. That was about 10 years ago. I have learned
> >much since then, and, for one, no longer fall into the devoted Velikovsky
> >camp. For example, I no longer believe the Queen of Sheba was the same
> >person as the pharoah Hatshepsut. David Rohl in his book Pharaohs and
Kings
> >pretty much knocked this out with his identification of Saul being Lebayu
in
> >the Egyptian writings, though this doesn't discount V's thesis being a
heck
> >of a read, in my opinion. That he didn't get all the details right has
got
> >him a lot of bad press over the years. This is true. But its hardly
fair.
> >Velikovsky was a free thinker who saw that the King Had No Clothes. He
saw
> >that the standard Eyptian timeline was enormously out of whack. And it
had
> >been that way since the decoding of the Rosetta Stone. Even to this day,
> >the truth of the screwed up Egyptian timeline still serves to anchor down
> >the truth with its wrong-headed thinking.
> >
> >So, the main benefit of Velikovsky's work, in my humble opinion, and one
> >that was never properly credited in my view, was his bringing back to the
> >Bible back some of its long lost credence. V showed how some of the
stories
> >could have been true, timewise, and possibly were in reality, actually
true.
> >For instance, where did the manna come from that fed the Children of
Israel
> >in the desert? Velikovsky postulated that Venus' cometary tail (Venus
had
> >been previously claimed to have been a comet expelled from the Great Red
> >Spot of Jupiter) near flyby could have accounted for that occurring at
that
> >precise time.
> >And even more intriguingly, Velikovsky identified Egyptian monument
writing
> >discussing a pharaoh who died in a mysterious "whirlpool" at a place
called
> >Pi-ha-Khiroth...the same exact place the Israelites encamped on the Red
Sea
> >in the book of Exodus. The pharaoh identified was not Ramses II.
> >
> >Nonetheless, the secular school of thought couldn't accept any of this.
> >They had to use an alternative to the Bible, so they chose the Egyptian
> >timeline, right or wrong, and have stuck with it despite all of the
dogged
> >evidence of things like the fact that Ramses III (conventionally lived
1200
> >BC or so) had Greek inscriptions on his mortuary monument in the Nile
delta
> >dating from the days of Plato, or 400 BC, not 1200 BC.
> >
> >Carl, Cheryl here gave us a website to a Gordon Bane's site where he
talks
> >about Fibonacci numbers. (That site is
> >http://www.geocentricbible.com/id25.htm if you care to check it out.)
One
> >of the intriguing things is how they skip the earth and how the only
> >discrepancies of any note apply to Venus and Mars. The author, one Fred
> >Wilson, attributes this to the cataclysm at the time of the Biblical
Flood.
> >Velikovsky, of course as you know, discussed Venus and Mars extensively
in
> >his writings, and how they approached the earth, especially Venus in
Worlds
> >in Collision. For those who haven't read it, V makes a good case for the
> >period of Venus in those days being the cause for the 50 year Jubilee
(still
> >observed today) asking, of course, why it wasn't 49 years...a more
Biblical
> >number. Also, the time of Hezekiah's extended life on earth was reputed,
by
> >Velikovsky, to correspond the the 15 year period of Mars' close approach
to
> >the earth. V claimed that this is what caused the Biblical shadow to
move
> >backward and then forward the ten degrees.
> >
> >Despite his shortcomings, I always felt V's identification of the Greek's
> >"Oedipus" with the Egyptian "Akhnaton" to be powerfully compelling. His
> >side by side comparison of the family trees between the two characters,
one
> >fictitious, one real, is nothing short of astounding. They are exact
> >copies. V's connection as to how Aknaton obliterated references to his
> >father throughout Egypt and how Queen Tuy, Akhnaton's mother, was always
> >around....fascinating. Read Oedipus and Akhnaton for the story.
> >
> >Velikovsky's third book, Earth in Upheaval, was an eye-opening look at
> >catastrophism, written in the mid 50's. With the notable and
non-sequitur
> >exception of his advocacy of punctuated evolution in that book, he made a
> >superb case for creationism's young earth. The La Brea Tar Pits, the
> >mammoths in Siberia, the islands of the arctic ocean loaded with flood
> >debris, the cattle still frozen to this day in a Tibetan river as they
> >attempted to swim across it in the remote past...you all know the
stories.
> >Velikovsky was where I first read about all of this.
> >
> >Was Velikovsky good or bad? He was, after all, a heliocentrist. Indeed,
he
> >claimed that the earth had sometime in its past "flipped over", possibly
> >even turning into a drunk sailor with the Venuvian encounters. But
though
> >he didn't hold to the Bible he equally disavowed convential sciences. So
> >the thing about Velikovsky one can indisputedly say was that he was a
> >fence-sitter. He made no friends on either side while doing a fabulous
job
> >of raising the ire of all who despised, as Velikovsky (self-praising
himself
> >in 'Worlds In Collision') described as his "turning a page in the book of
> >knowledge".
> >
> >Having been in this geocentric argument now for three years, I can
> >understand both the indifference of the Christians and the intolerance of
> >the scientists. Velikovsky was a genius. But geniuses aren't patronized
in
> >either world, especially ones who are a little cantankerous.
> >
> >Was Velikovsky good or bad then? On balance, very good, I say.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Gary Shelton
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Carl Felland" <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:48 PM
> >Subject: [geocentrism] Ancient calendars
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Neville, Steven, and group,
> >>By way of introduction, I am trained as an Entomologist (Ph.D.
> >>Mississippi State University, 1989) and was employed by Pennsylvania
> >>State University for ten years before opting for a more Biblical
> >>lifestyle in Arkansas. I have espoused most of the viewpoints of
> >>Institute of Creation Research through graduate school and beyond. I
> >>feel that my contribution to creation understanding is a demonstration
> >>that the Hebrew alphabet is formed around the words 'Israel' and 'Zion.'
> >>'Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal' rejected the paper, but I have
> >>put it online (http://yahuah.org/IZCentral.html).
> >>
> >>My family and I began to observe a solar/lunar "Creation calendar" (Gen.
> >>1: 14) about a year ago in which the 6 working days, weekly Sabbaths,
> >>and New Moon Days are mutually exclusive (Eze. 46: 1, 3). Through
> >>others who are observing this calendar I was introduced to the geostatic
> >>world view. I have perused your web site, look forward to your new CD,
> >>and have been following the discussions on this list.
> >>
> >>I recently read Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision and noted his ancient
> >>calendar study pointing to a 360 day year in the past. This, plus the
> >>prophetic 360 day year of the Scriptures, leads me to wonder if the
> >>current length of the year is different from that at creation or whether
> >>the 360 day calendar is based on something else. Velikovsky argued that
> >>the Plagues and Joshua's long day were a result of brushes with comets
> >>and that the hail that fell in both was likely meteors. He argued that
> >>it was the earth's rotation that was altered. Does the geostatic
> >>position allow for "natural" explanations for the cataclysmic events in
> >>earth history? Does the geostatic position allow for a change in the
> >>length of the solar year?
> >>
> >>C. M. Felland
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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