Gary, Twelve 30 day months in a 360 day year seems like a perfect Biblical system. Is this what it was before Isaiah's time? Can it be modelled? Thanks for referring to David Rohl. I also know that James McCanney has attempted to build on Velikovsky's work. Carl Gary Shelton wrote: >Carl, > >One other thing that was interesting about Velikovsky I recall was his >research on the 360 day calendar and how it began about the time of Isaiah, >or thereabouts. Before that there was a 360 day calendar. After that, 5 >"Gatha" days were added to the calendar to make the solstices and equinoxes >all jive. > >Velikovsky submitted that we shouldn't hold the ancients in such disrepect >to believe that they wouldn't have figured out a problem with their calendar >before this time of Isaiah. > >The time of Isaiah was also, of course, the time of Hezekiah and his extra >15 years, and this was also the time of Mars' close approach to the earth, >causing (as V.postulated) the change in the sundial shadow. > >Since it was supposedly written about the same time, Homer's Illiad drew >Velikovsky's attention. Upon close analysis, Velikovsky felt it was a huge >analogy depicting a cosmic battle. All the planets had names. Jupiter was >Zeus and Venus was Athena and was reputed to be "Zeus's offspring" thereby >bringing about the speculation that she was emitted from the Great Red Spot >of Jupiter. > >Mars (Ares) and the earth (Hera) did battle and Athena warned Aphrodite (the >moon) to keep out of the fray. > >Possibly, Velikovsky stated, the moon did at one time have ten equal months >of 30 days each before this time. > >I'm no expert, but this is a very fascinating subject. > >Velikovsky's writings were really all one big book entitled "Ages in Chaos", >as that was the theme of his entire body of works. "Worlds in Collision" >was the first in the series and every book that followed was just another >piece of the puzzle in that enormous re-writing of ancient history that >Velikovsky undertook. His last book "Ramses II and His Time" showed >Velikovsky being a bit scared off by the critics, perhaps. He almost named >it Ramses II and Nebuchadnezzar but he thought the uproar would be more than >he could bear. > >Ramses II supposedly lived about 1300 BC and Nebuchadnezzar more like 600 >BC. They couldn't possibly have been contemporaries...or could they? The >Battle of Carchemesh (614 BC.) was supposedly where Nebbie beat Ramses' >backside and became the new kid on the block. > >Velikovsky made some errors. He can't be taken without a grain of salt. >But I say this again for the record. Right or wrong, his works vouched for >the Bible timeline, while bringing to the world's attention the megolithic >errors of the Egyptian timeline. And remember, the import of using the >Egyptian timeline for modern scholars is that the Bible is disregarded as an >unimportant writing by an insignifigant group of Hebrew slaves that was >never a big deal to the mighty Egyptians. This was plainly not so because >the Assyrians and Chaldeans and ancient Greeks all verified the Biblical >stories despite the fact that the Egyptians did not. Yet somehow, the >Egyptian timeline is what we still use. > >David Rohl is a force in this subject today. > >Sincerely, >Gary > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carl Felland" <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx> >To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:23 AM >Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Ancient calendars-Velikovsky > > > > >>Hi Gary, >>I appreciate your welcome and your sharing your knowledge of >>Velikovsky's works. I have much to learn. I have read only Worlds in >>Collision, but have ordered several other of his books from ebay. These >>other books have not yet arrived because I did not want to pay for >>airmail from England... Now, whether I have fallen in love with his >>writings, I'm not sure. But, I surely don't want to discount his >>information. >> >>Carl >> >> >>Gary Shelton wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello Carl, and welcome. >>> >>>I might be one of the few people who can say he totally fell into love >>> >>> >with > > >>>Velikovsky's writings. I read every one of his books, I believe, and >>> >>> >found > > >>>him thoroughly fascinating. That was about 10 years ago. I have learned >>>much since then, and, for one, no longer fall into the devoted Velikovsky >>>camp. For example, I no longer believe the Queen of Sheba was the same >>>person as the pharoah Hatshepsut. David Rohl in his book Pharaohs and >>> >>> >Kings > > >>>pretty much knocked this out with his identification of Saul being Lebayu >>> >>> >in > > >>>the Egyptian writings, though this doesn't discount V's thesis being a >>> >>> >heck > > >>>of a read, in my opinion. That he didn't get all the details right has >>> >>> >got > > >>>him a lot of bad press over the years. This is true. But its hardly >>> >>> >fair. > > >>>Velikovsky was a free thinker who saw that the King Had No Clothes. He >>> >>> >saw > > >>>that the standard Eyptian timeline was enormously out of whack. And it >>> >>> >had > > >>>been that way since the decoding of the Rosetta Stone. Even to this day, >>>the truth of the screwed up Egyptian timeline still serves to anchor down >>>the truth with its wrong-headed thinking. >>> >>>So, the main benefit of Velikovsky's work, in my humble opinion, and one >>>that was never properly credited in my view, was his bringing back to the >>>Bible back some of its long lost credence. V showed how some of the >>> >>> >stories > > >>>could have been true, timewise, and possibly were in reality, actually >>> >>> >true. > > >>>For instance, where did the manna come from that fed the Children of >>> >>> >Israel > > >>>in the desert? Velikovsky postulated that Venus' cometary tail (Venus >>> >>> >had > > >>>been previously claimed to have been a comet expelled from the Great Red >>>Spot of Jupiter) near flyby could have accounted for that occurring at >>> >>> >that > > >>>precise time. >>>And even more intriguingly, Velikovsky identified Egyptian monument >>> >>> >writing > > >>>discussing a pharaoh who died in a mysterious "whirlpool" at a place >>> >>> >called > > >>>Pi-ha-Khiroth...the same exact place the Israelites encamped on the Red >>> >>> >Sea > > >>>in the book of Exodus. The pharaoh identified was not Ramses II. >>> >>>Nonetheless, the secular school of thought couldn't accept any of this. >>>They had to use an alternative to the Bible, so they chose the Egyptian >>>timeline, right or wrong, and have stuck with it despite all of the >>> >>> >dogged > > >>>evidence of things like the fact that Ramses III (conventionally lived >>> >>> >1200 > > >>>BC or so) had Greek inscriptions on his mortuary monument in the Nile >>> >>> >delta > > >>>dating from the days of Plato, or 400 BC, not 1200 BC. >>> >>>Carl, Cheryl here gave us a website to a Gordon Bane's site where he >>> >>> >talks > > >>>about Fibonacci numbers. (That site is >>>http://www.geocentricbible.com/id25.htm if you care to check it out.) >>> >>> >One > > >>>of the intriguing things is how they skip the earth and how the only >>>discrepancies of any note apply to Venus and Mars. The author, one Fred >>>Wilson, attributes this to the cataclysm at the time of the Biblical >>> >>> >Flood. > > >>>Velikovsky, of course as you know, discussed Venus and Mars extensively >>> >>> >in > > >>>his writings, and how they approached the earth, especially Venus in >>> >>> >Worlds > > >>>in Collision. For those who haven't read it, V makes a good case for the >>>period of Venus in those days being the cause for the 50 year Jubilee >>> >>> >(still > > >>>observed today) asking, of course, why it wasn't 49 years...a more >>> >>> >Biblical > > >>>number. Also, the time of Hezekiah's extended life on earth was reputed, >>> >>> >by > > >>>Velikovsky, to correspond the the 15 year period of Mars' close approach >>> >>> >to > > >>>the earth. V claimed that this is what caused the Biblical shadow to >>> >>> >move > > >>>backward and then forward the ten degrees. >>> >>>Despite his shortcomings, I always felt V's identification of the Greek's >>>"Oedipus" with the Egyptian "Akhnaton" to be powerfully compelling. His >>>side by side comparison of the family trees between the two characters, >>> >>> >one > > >>>fictitious, one real, is nothing short of astounding. They are exact >>>copies. V's connection as to how Aknaton obliterated references to his >>>father throughout Egypt and how Queen Tuy, Akhnaton's mother, was always >>>around....fascinating. Read Oedipus and Akhnaton for the story. >>> >>>Velikovsky's third book, Earth in Upheaval, was an eye-opening look at >>>catastrophism, written in the mid 50's. With the notable and >>> >>> >non-sequitur > > >>>exception of his advocacy of punctuated evolution in that book, he made a >>>superb case for creationism's young earth. The La Brea Tar Pits, the >>>mammoths in Siberia, the islands of the arctic ocean loaded with flood >>>debris, the cattle still frozen to this day in a Tibetan river as they >>>attempted to swim across it in the remote past...you all know the >>> >>> >stories. > > >>>Velikovsky was where I first read about all of this. >>> >>>Was Velikovsky good or bad? He was, after all, a heliocentrist. Indeed, >>> >>> >he > > >>>claimed that the earth had sometime in its past "flipped over", possibly >>>even turning into a drunk sailor with the Venuvian encounters. But >>> >>> >though > > >>>he didn't hold to the Bible he equally disavowed convential sciences. So >>>the thing about Velikovsky one can indisputedly say was that he was a >>>fence-sitter. He made no friends on either side while doing a fabulous >>> >>> >job > > >>>of raising the ire of all who despised, as Velikovsky (self-praising >>> >>> >himself > > >>>in 'Worlds In Collision') described as his "turning a page in the book of >>>knowledge". >>> >>>Having been in this geocentric argument now for three years, I can >>>understand both the indifference of the Christians and the intolerance of >>>the scientists. Velikovsky was a genius. But geniuses aren't patronized >>> >>> >in > > >>>either world, especially ones who are a little cantankerous. >>> >>>Was Velikovsky good or bad then? On balance, very good, I say. >>> >>>Sincerely, >>> >>>Gary Shelton >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Carl Felland" <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:48 PM >>>Subject: [geocentrism] Ancient calendars >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Neville, Steven, and group, >>>>By way of introduction, I am trained as an Entomologist (Ph.D. >>>>Mississippi State University, 1989) and was employed by Pennsylvania >>>>State University for ten years before opting for a more Biblical >>>>lifestyle in Arkansas. I have espoused most of the viewpoints of >>>>Institute of Creation Research through graduate school and beyond. I >>>>feel that my contribution to creation understanding is a demonstration >>>>that the Hebrew alphabet is formed around the words 'Israel' and 'Zion.' >>>>'Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal' rejected the paper, but I have >>>>put it online (http://yahuah.org/IZCentral.html). >>>> >>>>My family and I began to observe a solar/lunar "Creation calendar" (Gen. >>>>1: 14) about a year ago in which the 6 working days, weekly Sabbaths, >>>>and New Moon Days are mutually exclusive (Eze. 46: 1, 3). Through >>>>others who are observing this calendar I was introduced to the geostatic >>>>world view. I have perused your web site, look forward to your new CD, >>>>and have been following the discussions on this list. >>>> >>>>I recently read Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision and noted his ancient >>>>calendar study pointing to a 360 day year in the past. This, plus the >>>>prophetic 360 day year of the Scriptures, leads me to wonder if the >>>>current length of the year is different from that at creation or whether >>>>the 360 day calendar is based on something else. Velikovsky argued that >>>>the Plagues and Joshua's long day were a result of brushes with comets >>>>and that the hail that fell in both was likely meteors. He argued that >>>>it was the earth's rotation that was altered. Does the geostatic >>>>position allow for "natural" explanations for the cataclysmic events in >>>>earth history? Does the geostatic position allow for a change in the >>>>length of the solar year? >>>> >>>>C. M. Felland >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/05 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/05 >> >> >> >> > > > > >