[gameprogrammer] Re: Carmack on Java phone games
- From: Ken Johnson <johnsk16@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:14:28 -0700
I don't think he was trying to trash anyone, not sure where you got
that from. Aside from that, he did mention the problem with every
single phone having a different hardware arch and commerical games
having to compile for 100+ different phone types. I think he was just
doing some wishing about where the state of the hardware and os
support could be, and realizing its not going to happen, at least not
in the near future. Seems like you would like for the same things to
happen that he indicates. I do agree about a phone not having a direct
competiton with the likes of the DS or PSP, the phones primary usage
is communication, with the games a bonus.
He also seems to be getting into the mobile game dev business, I think
you should encourage that. Not laugh at him or anyone else trying to
break into the development on mobiles. Carmack is a big name, and big
names get things done faster than pretty much anything, aside from a
mountain of cash, and he has both. If mobile phone companies know that
they can hawk their phones with a game made by John Carmack, thats a
marketing goldmine, not so much a goldmine if its a game made by Joe
Bob from Kansas.
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:40:53 +0200, Frank Henry <frank.henry@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Now I am one of the many that admire the man for his work, but please
> John...
>
> First and foremost java mobile games are still very young. B&W phones
> are still in the market and the differences between phones could hardly
> be greater.
> People seem to think of mobile phones as mini PSPs or what.
>
> Now you can say what you want about java but it does its job and that
> quite well. I sure miss all the pluses c gave me but let's be realistic!
> Getting the java sdks can be hard enough sometimes, you can forget about
> getting system-sdks! Not to mention them all working as they intended.
>
> Also java was designed with safty in mind. No java application is able
> to mess with the internals of a mobile phone.
> (yes it is annoying but then think about who our customers are and all
> the dialers in the world)
>
> You cannot compare the hw of phones to each other as you can one pc to
> another. Off the top of my head the comp I work for supports 9+ phone
> manufacturers and about 50+ unique devices.
> Concider each mobile phone like a PSP. Now imagine all the different
> PSP-variations out there that only have to adhere to certain
> communications standars. You get a LOT of different HW combinations.
> On the PC if your gfx card sucks you can get a new one, plug it in and
> it works (because it was desinged that way)
> The only way you can upgrade your mobile phone is by buying an extra mem
> card (no effect for java) or getting a new mobile phone!
>
> Yet the PSP was designed purly as a gaming console.
>
> see the following link for a incomplete listing:
> http://developers.sun.com/techtopics/mobility/device/device?api=6
> Each mobile phone comp will have different hw and different os on their
> devices.
>
> Not to mention that it is a PHONE and not a gaming device.
>
> The mobile gaming market is a hard market to get into and a tough one to
> develop for.
> We mobile game devs have NO, ZERO, NADA say in the mobile development
> and are VERY happy when we can even get a device to test on (and my comp
> being one of the market leads!)
>
> John was correct when he mentioned Brew. Sure it would be nice to
> develop with on a lower level, but then you will have to forget about
> market coverage and without market coverage you will make a loss. Even
> with the killer game.
>
> I would never dare say anything about John's work without knowing the
> details and would recommend John not do so about mobile gaming.
>
> Sorry for my little rant.
> I really get a kick out of people from the PC world coming and trying to
> trash us mobile game devs without knowing anything about what we do and
> what we have to live with. Though I do get my laughs when they get into
> the mobile game dev and fall flat on their faces!
>
> cya
>
> Frank
> *me goes back to lurking*
>
> brianevans wrote:
> > If you guys haven't heard, Carmack wrote a bit about mobile Java for phone
> > games.
> >
> > http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/johnc/Recent%20Updates
> >
> > So much for my assertion that Carmack would never program in Java. ;) To
> > be fair, that assertion was in reference to "next generation" PC
> > engines/games.
> >
> > It's a pretty good read. Seems like in a lot of ways the phone games
> > market has brought us back to the "good old days" where game design and
> > gameplay overshadowed graphics and special effects. Simply because, you
> > can't do that much on the platform yet (and if you believe Carmack, Java
> > makes it that much more challenging). The problem is, I think we're
> > already too spoiled-- interface wise if not graphics wise. That and we
> > already have portable game platforms in the Gameboy, and now PSP, which
> > will overshadow anything that the general phone games will be able to do
> > for quite some time.
>
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