[ddots-l] Re: Sonar
- From: "Phil Muir" <ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:45:26 -0000
The problem with JSonar is, if you are a beginner, you are at an extreme
disadvantage. The CT
tutorials will walk you through everything... or, to be more correct, almost
everything having to do
with learning Sonar from the ground up.
I don't agree entirely with this statement. If you are good and understanding
concepts, and you
don't mind reading Sonar's help system then, using JSonar, in conjunction with
Sonar, is a good
option.
Perhaps it would be best if we looked at Dan's previous post on this point by
point.
1. JSonar supports Sonar 6 and has done for a while.
True however, CT is on the way for Sonar 6.
2. JSonar is free!
Hard one to argue. It costs nothing to try. Perhaps a demo version of CT
would be a good idea/
3. JSonar gives you a wide range of keystrokes for navigating by small
steps, less than a millisecond if you want. It also lets you scrub from the
keyboard (I'm not sure if CT offers this or not).
CT does offer this.
4. JSonar's keystrokes for navigating the track fields are far more logical.
CONTROL + SHIFT + V. for volume or P for pan or NO for name, etc.
True however, I got the impression that Bill, hinted that this may change in CT
for Sonar 6.
5. JSonar makes every effort to leave all of Sonar's own keystrokes intact
unlike CT which makes you use different ones.
This particular point, is really hard to argue.
I suppose it's not an issue
if you only work on your own but I must say that I greatly prefer JSonar's
way of doing things in this regard. My reasons are:
First, Sonar has already put keystrokes in place which makes important
operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes the
programmers time on replicating work which has already been done, and
despite what some people think, blind people are more than capable of
learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate.
True however, CT users will argue that the reason they like CT's use of
keystrokes, is the standard
way that they have been implemented. It's certainly true that Sonar's
keystrokes, aren't always
that intuitive. Maybe we should all be actively encouraging Cakewalk, to
implement more
standardised keystrokes? I haven't personally found this to be an issue
however, I appreciate that
some people may.
I personally agree with Dan when he says, "First, Sonar has already put
keystrokes in place which
makes important
operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes the
programmers time on replicating work which has already been done."
On the other hand, some may argue that the reason why CT does this, is due to
the fact that some
Sonar keystrokes are non intuitive.
I think Dan has a point here, when he says, "blind people are more than capable
of
learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate." . On the
other hand, for some
people, more standardised keystrokes, may be important.
Second, it can make it difficult to ask your sighted peers for help because
the CT interface is so different to theirs.
Third, if you try teaching Sonar to a room full of people with mixed sight
then you're asking for trouble if the people using jaws are using one set of
keystrokes and everybody else is using another set.
I agree with Dan on this. These points are hard to argue. Perhaps in the
future, it would be good
to have a JSonar preference for CT? Then, you would be able to use CT with the
added features that
it has but, with standard Sonar keystrokes. this would get CT users around the
issue of working with
other Sonar users in the same room, that Dan outlined, above.
Four, the Sonar help manual, which includes things not covered in the CT
manual, is often going to be useless because CT has replaced the keystrokes
which are described in the manual.
This could be an issue, if you are working with other Sonar users who aren't
using CT. On the other
hand, CT's tutorials, do explain things in a easy step by step, process which,
some people may
require. I have had CT for years however, I haven't personally ever needed the
tutorials but hay,
that's just me. I must add that, Bill and others, are right when they say that
CT does ship with
extensive tutorials.
6. JSonar supports HSC which can make some inaccessible plugins accessible.
As I previously posted, for most CT users, this probably isn't an issue as they
will only use the
supported audio affects and softsynthes. On the other hand, it could be a
problem, for those of us
who use softsynthes that CT doesn't support at all.
I know of several users who started out on CT, and moved over to JSonar for
some of the reasons,
outlined above.
I think it's great that we have choice now. I have, and do use both.
Regards, Phil Muir
P J Muir Productions
Music And Audio Production
URL:
www.philmuir.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Licht" <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
> The problem with JSonar is, if you are a beginner, you are at an extreme
> disadvantage. The CT
> tutorials will walk you through everything... or, to be more correct, almost
> everything having to
> do with learning Sonar from the ground up.
>
> At 12:55 PM 1/13/2007, Mike Christer wrote:
>>Hey Lex!
>>
>>Although I'm a CT user myself, I would advise you to take a good look at the
>>free J.Sonar scripts.
>>Personally, I don't know much about them, but a lot of guys on this list and
>>the MidiMag list swear by them...
>>
>>I reckon it's worth checking them out, they work in a totally different way
>>to CT, actually preserving the original Sonar hot keys, besides, you got
>>nothing to lose but a little time?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Mike
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sandy Licht" <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:25 PM
>>Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>>
>>
>> > Yes. They do. David Pento did a great job with the tutorials.
>> >
>> > At 03:45 PM 1/12/2007, Lex Gillette wrote:
>> >>yes, I do plan on getting the Caketalking scripts; from reading, it seems
>> >>as though these scripts are very helpful in working with Sonar. The
>> >>tutorials that accompany Caketalking explain everything from front to
>> >>back?
>> >>
>> >>>From: Sandy Licht <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>Reply-To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>> >>>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:26:28 -0600
>> >>>
>> >>>If you are going to use the Caketalking scripts, you will need Sonar 5.
>> >>>The version of Sonar you buy doesn't depend on your knowledge, so version
>> >>>5 would be as good as any. I highly recommend the Caketalking scripts,
>> >>>as they come with extensive tutorial documentation.
>> >>>
>> >>>At 03:09 PM 1/12/2007, Lex Gillette wrote:
>> >>>>Hey Guys
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I'm the beginner of the group unfortunately. I want to purchase sonar
>> >>>>and I'm relatively new to all of this; I have recorded and things a lot
>> >>>>and want to purchase sonar so that I can record and produce arangements
>> >>>>for myself without 100 percent sighted assistance.
>> >>>>What version of Sonar would be best for my needs and knowledge of
>> >>>>recording? It doesn't seem sensible for me to start off with Sonar
>> >>>>version 6 but if it's recommended then I could look into it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Thanks for your patience with me
>> >>>>Lex
>> >>>>
>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
>> >>>>Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger!
>> >>>>Get it now
>> >>>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?hre
>> f=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>> >>>>
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>> >>>>--
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>> >>>>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date:
>> >>>>1/11/2007
>> >>>
>> >>>Sandy Licht
>> >>>
>> >>>Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
>> >>>11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans
>> >>>for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In
>> >>>those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me in
>> >>>earnest, you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be found by you,"
>> >>>says the Lord.
>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >>_________________________________________________________________
>> >> From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
>> >> has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
>> >>
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>> >>--
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>> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>> >
>> > Sandy Licht
>> >
>> > Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
>> > 11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans
>> > for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In
>> > those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me in earnest,
>> > you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be found by you," says the
>> > Lord.
>> >
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>> >
>> > --
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>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>> >
>>
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>>--
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>
> Sandy Licht
>
> Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
> 11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans for
> good and not for
> disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In those days when you pray, I
> will listen. 13 If
> you look for me in earnest, you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be
> found by you," says
> the Lord.
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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