[ddots-l] Re: Sonar
- From: "James Malone" <malone_j@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:15:38 -0800
I guess you would say that J Sonar is more for the intermediate and advance
user?
On Dancing dots site, it would seem that the specs on Ct centered around a
six year old beginner, and a eighteen year old college grad.
Never the less, I use Ct, but am trying to understand J Sonar. Because of
the concepts of working with one program, and learning another is hard on
the brain. So I can understand the argument of CT and J Sonar. What about a
universal program that works with Jaws and Window eyes? Maybe something that
doesn't require changing keystrokes to confuse the user?
Maybe some lister has a fourteen year old genius living in their home that
knows code very well.
-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Phil Muir
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:55 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
Sure, just put 2 versions of Jaws on your system. Install CT into one, and
JSonar into another.
Regards, Phil Muir
P J Muir Productions
Music And Audio Production
URL:
www.philmuir.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lex Gillette" <trakstar84@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:47 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
> That was going to be my next question. It seems like both CT and J.Sonar
are both very user
> friendly. Is it possible to use both of them? I mean, use Ct for one
music project and then exit
> out and reenter using the CT scripts? This is a lot to take in and I'm
very interested in T but
> you guys are putting up a good argument for ssing J.Sonar.
>
>
>>From: "Phil Muir" <ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Reply-To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>>Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:45:26 -0000
>>
>>The problem with JSonar is, if you are a beginner, you are at an extreme
disadvantage. The CT
>>tutorials will walk you through everything... or, to be more correct,
almost everything having to
>>do
>>with learning Sonar from the ground up.
>>
>>I don't agree entirely with this statement. If you are good and
understanding concepts, and you
>>don't mind reading Sonar's help system then, using JSonar, in conjunction
with Sonar, is a good
>>option.
>>
>>Perhaps it would be best if we looked at Dan's previous post on this point
by point.
>>
>>1. JSonar supports Sonar 6 and has done for a while.
>>
>>
>>
>>True however, CT is on the way for Sonar 6.
>>
>>
>>
>>2. JSonar is free!
>>
>>
>>
>>Hard one to argue. It costs nothing to try. Perhaps a demo version of CT
would be a good idea/
>>
>>
>>
>>3. JSonar gives you a wide range of keystrokes for navigating by small
>>
>>steps, less than a millisecond if you want. It also lets you scrub from
the
>>
>>keyboard (I'm not sure if CT offers this or not).
>>
>>
>>
>>CT does offer this.
>>
>>
>>
>>4. JSonar's keystrokes for navigating the track fields are far more
logical.
>>
>>CONTROL + SHIFT + V. for volume or P for pan or NO for name, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>True however, I got the impression that Bill, hinted that this may change
in CT for Sonar 6.
>>
>>
>>
>>5. JSonar makes every effort to leave all of Sonar's own keystrokes intact
>>
>>unlike CT which makes you use different ones.
>>
>>
>>
>>This particular point, is really hard to argue.
>>
>>
>>
>>I suppose it's not an issue
>>
>>if you only work on your own but I must say that I greatly prefer JSonar's
>>
>>way of doing things in this regard. My reasons are:
>>
>>First, Sonar has already put keystrokes in place which makes important
>>
>>operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes
the
>>
>>programmers time on replicating work which has already been done, and
>>
>>despite what some people think, blind people are more than capable of
>>
>>learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate.
>>
>>
>>
>>True however, CT users will argue that the reason they like CT's use of
keystrokes, is the
>>standard
>>way that they have been implemented. It's certainly true that Sonar's
keystrokes, aren't always
>>that intuitive. Maybe we should all be actively encouraging Cakewalk, to
implement more
>>standardised keystrokes? I haven't personally found this to be an issue
however, I appreciate
>>that
>>some people may.
>>
>>
>>
>>I personally agree with Dan when he says, "First, Sonar has already put
keystrokes in place which
>>makes important
>>
>>operations easy and there is no need to replace them. This only wastes
the
>>
>>programmers time on replicating work which has already been done."
>>
>>
>>
>>On the other hand, some may argue that the reason why CT does this, is due
to the fact that some
>>Sonar keystrokes are non intuitive.
>>
>>
>>
>>I think Dan has a point here, when he says, "blind people are more than
capable of
>>
>>learning patterns of keystrokes which are not layed out on a plate." .
On the other hand, for
>>some
>>people, more standardised keystrokes, may be important.
>>
>>
>>
>>Second, it can make it difficult to ask your sighted peers for help
because
>>
>>the CT interface is so different to theirs.
>>
>>Third, if you try teaching Sonar to a room full of people with mixed sight
>>
>>then you're asking for trouble if the people using jaws are using one set
of
>>
>>keystrokes and everybody else is using another set.
>>
>>
>>
>>I agree with Dan on this. These points are hard to argue. Perhaps in the
future, it would be
>>good
>>to have a JSonar preference for CT? Then, you would be able to use CT
with the added features
>>that
>>it has but, with standard Sonar keystrokes. this would get CT users around
the issue of working
>>with
>>other Sonar users in the same room, that Dan outlined, above.
>>
>>
>>
>>Four, the Sonar help manual, which includes things not covered in the CT
>>
>>manual, is often going to be useless because CT has replaced the
keystrokes
>>
>>which are described in the manual.
>>
>>
>>
>>This could be an issue, if you are working with other Sonar users who
aren't using CT. On the
>>other
>>hand, CT's tutorials, do explain things in a easy step by step, process
which, some people may
>>require. I have had CT for years however, I haven't personally ever needed
the tutorials but hay,
>>that's just me. I must add that, Bill and others, are right when they say
that CT does ship with
>>extensive tutorials.
>>
>>
>>
>>6. JSonar supports HSC which can make some inaccessible plugins
accessible.
>>
>>
>>
>>As I previously posted, for most CT users, this probably isn't an issue as
they will only use the
>>supported audio affects and softsynthes. On the other hand, it could be a
problem, for those of
>>us
>>who use softsynthes that CT doesn't support at all.
>>
>>I know of several users who started out on CT, and moved over to JSonar
for some of the reasons,
>>outlined above.
>>
>> I think it's great that we have choice now. I have, and do use both.
>>
>>Regards, Phil Muir
>>P J Muir Productions
>>Music And Audio Production
>>URL:
>>www.philmuir.com/
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sandy Licht" <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:28 PM
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>>
>>
>> > The problem with JSonar is, if you are a beginner, you are at an
extreme
>>disadvantage. The CT
>> > tutorials will walk you through everything... or, to be more correct,
>>almost everything having to
>> > do with learning Sonar from the ground up.
>> >
>> > At 12:55 PM 1/13/2007, Mike Christer wrote:
>> >>Hey Lex!
>> >>
>> >>Although I'm a CT user myself, I would advise you to take a good look
at
>>the
>> >>free J.Sonar scripts.
>> >>Personally, I don't know much about them, but a lot of guys on this
list
>>and
>> >>the MidiMag list swear by them...
>> >>
>> >>I reckon it's worth checking them out, they work in a totally different
>>way
>> >>to CT, actually preserving the original Sonar hot keys, besides, you
got
>> >>nothing to lose but a little time?
>> >>
>> >>Regards
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "Sandy Licht" <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:25 PM
>> >>Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Yes. They do. David Pento did a great job with the tutorials.
>> >> >
>> >> > At 03:45 PM 1/12/2007, Lex Gillette wrote:
>> >> >>yes, I do plan on getting the Caketalking scripts; from reading, it
>>seems
>> >> >>as though these scripts are very helpful in working with Sonar. The
>> >> >>tutorials that accompany Caketalking explain everything from front
to
>> >> >>back?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>From: Sandy Licht <slicht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>Reply-To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>>To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>>Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Sonar
>> >> >>>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:26:28 -0600
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>If you are going to use the Caketalking scripts, you will need
Sonar
>>5.
>> >> >>>The version of Sonar you buy doesn't depend on your knowledge, so
>>version
>> >> >>>5 would be as good as any. I highly recommend the Caketalking
>>scripts,
>> >> >>>as they come with extensive tutorial documentation.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>At 03:09 PM 1/12/2007, Lex Gillette wrote:
>> >> >>>>Hey Guys
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>I'm the beginner of the group unfortunately. I want to purchase
>>sonar
>> >> >>>>and I'm relatively new to all of this; I have recorded and things
a
>>lot
>> >> >>>>and want to purchase sonar so that I can record and produce
>>arangements
>> >> >>>>for myself without 100 percent sighted assistance.
>> >> >>>>What version of Sonar would be best for my needs and knowledge of
>> >> >>>>recording? It doesn't seem sensible for me to start off with
Sonar
>> >> >>>>version 6 but if it's recommended then I could look into it.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Thanks for your patience with me
>> >> >>>>Lex
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
>> >> >>>>Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live
>>Messenger!
>> >> >>>>Get it now
>> >> >>>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?hre
>> >> f=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>> >> >>>>
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>> >> >>>>--
>> >> >>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> >>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> >>>>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date:
>> >> >>>>1/11/2007
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sandy Licht
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
>> >> >>>11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are
>>plans
>> >> >>>for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12
>>In
>> >> >>>those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me in
>> >> >>>earnest, you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be found by
>>you,"
>> >> >>>says the Lord.
>> >> >>>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________
>> >> >> From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden
>>Globes
>> >> >> has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
>> >> >>
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>> >> >>--
>> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> >>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date:
>>1/12/2007
>> >> >
>> >> > Sandy Licht
>> >> >
>> >> > Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
>> >> > 11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are
>>plans
>> >> > for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12
In
>> >> > those days when you pray, I will listen. 13 If you look for me in
>>earnest,
>> >> > you will find me when you seek me. 14 I will be found by you," says
>>the
>> >> > Lord.
>> >> >
>> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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>> >> > --
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>> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date:
>>06/01/2007
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
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>> >>--
>> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >>Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date:
>>1/12/2007
>> >
>> > Sandy Licht
>> >
>> > Jeremiah 29:11 - 14 A .
>> > 11 For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans
>>for good and not for
>> > disaster, to give you a future and a hope. 12 In those days when you
>>pray, I will listen. 13 If
>> > you look for me in earnest, you will find me when you seek me. 14 I
will
>>be found by you," says
>> > the Lord.
>> >
>> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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>>
>>
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
> From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
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> http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
>
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