[wisb] Re: Question about Smith's Longspurs
- From: <jsommer2@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: jim_lutes@xxxxxxx, tcwood729@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 15:50:51 +0000
Good morning,
I just wanted to say I have enjoyed reading all the posts and have appreciated
hearing all the viewpoints. I have certainly learned more as a result.
Many thanks to Jim Lutes for his broad insights.
It is nice to be associated with a group of thoughtful people.
Joan Sommer
Fredonia
N. Ozaukee County
---- "Lutes wrote:
> If I could I'd throw out a couple of not necessarily bird related comments.
> First, dogs. Dogs on WPAs must be on a leash at all times except while
> engaged in hunting during established open seasons. Do we have a problem
> with dogs off leash? I could list off several WPAs where there can be
> found, at about any time, dogs running off leash and I bet a few of you
> could give several more examples. Second, habitat. I'd like to think that
> the Smith's are/were there because that IS the only field around which they
> found desirable because of it's condition. The thought that, if they felt
> excessively disturbed, they could/would just go to a different field may
> not be totally correct. We all know birds are species of habitat
> preference, some broad, some narrow, and if that habitat is not available
> neither will the birds that relate to it. If folks have comments on this
> y'all can send me an e-mail and I'll gladly keep the conversation(s) going.
> But now....back to tallking about birds!!
> *"Anyone can love the mountains, **it takes soul to love the prairie."*
>
> Jim Lutes
> Wildlife Biologist
> Horicon NWR/Leopold WMD Complex
> W10040 Cascade Mountain Road
> Portage, WI 53901
> jim_lutes@xxxxxxx
> 608.742.7100 ext. 17 (Office)
> 920.948.4763 (Cell)
> 608.745.0866 (Fax)
> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/horicon/
> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/leopold/
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Tom Wood <tcwood729@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > I did not go out to look for the Smith's Longspur's because of a
> > troublesome
> > foot, but if not for that, I certainly would have joined the others. I
> > haven't seen one since 1989 when I saw them on the breeding grounds in
> > Churchill, Manitoba.
> > Definitions of harassment vary with the individual. Any interruption in the
> > process of a bird's daily life could be considered harassment, so as Mike
> > Wanger indicated, just walking down the sidewalk and causing a Robin to
> > stop
> > its hunt for worms could be considered harassment. I once was having a
> > friendly conversation with a ranger at Horicon Marsh and he told me that a
> > staff biologist had told him that birders cause a great deal of harm to
> > birds by "pishing", because it stops them from feeding or attending to
> > their
> > young. That was the only thing I remember from that conversation because I
> > always thought pishing was rather innocuous.
> > I'm sure the longspurs have evolved to deal with harassment from predators
> > and competitors. Birds of North America online states that they tolerate
> > humans and breed in areas of moderate disturbance and even sing from
> > telephone wires in Churchill. From the posts I've read, birders are
> > flushing
> > them and they disappear for long periods of time before being refound. If
> > this level of disturbance was intolerable, they would move to another
> > field.
> > Slow-moving humans are certainly less of a threat than the hawks and ground
> > predators they encounter on a daily basis.
> > Jim Lutes has answered the question about the use of the WPA, and since the
> > birds continue to use the field in spite of the birders, I don't think we
> > have crossed any line causing danger to the birds.
> > I believe there are such lines being crossed at times; attracting owls to
> > the road where they are subject to being hit by vehicles and losing their
> > fear of humans; disturbing roosting owls in the winter when food is local
> > and scarce; repeatedly visiting nesting birds and providing a path for
> > predators to follow; those are all levels of harassment that I would
> > consider harmful.
> > Those are just my personal thoughts and I respect the opinions of others. I
> > have had the pleasure to be birding nearby when Joan was in the area, and
> > her patience and helpfulness to new birders and non-birders alike is
> > exemplary; she is a great ambassador for birding. Though I have different
> > thoughts than she does on this subject, I thank her for bringing it up
> > because it is useful to review one's personal ethics from time to time.
> > Thomas Wood, Menomonee Falls, Waukesha County
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Steve Thiessen
> > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:59 AM
> > To: carol.jaksic@xxxxxxxxx
> > Cc: Wisconsin Birding Network
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: Question about Smith's Longspurs
> >
> >
> >
> > I've walked that field ever since I saw it became a WPA. It is very
> > interesting to watch and I'm looking forward to see what it looks like this
> > fall. And yes I will be walking it to see if I can find LeConte's and
> > Nelson's Sparrows. They will be there a few days this fall, I'm sure.
> > Even though many people have walked this field this week, I can't really
> > see a change in it. A lot of the base is still just dirt, but the plants
> > that came in seem strong. It was interesting that with the snow, last
> > winter,a lot of the grass seeds seem to still be there.
> > As far as the longspurs go, it was a interesting learning experience. They
> > don't act like the Laplands. Even though they did get flushed a number of
> > times, it wasn't a constant thing. It wasn't as bad as you are thinking or
> > making it out to be. The field is about 1/4 by 1/3 mile. When they didn't
> > want to be seen they could really disappear. Now the Savannah Sparrows may
> > have thought "Oh no, here they come again".
> > Now to dogs. I've taken a dog for walks in many fields. The birds don't
> > mind them near as much as they do people. And oddly enough , when I first
> > saw these birds (I knew what they were but needed and wanted a good look),
> > I
> > let the dog walk ahead in hopes it would flush them. The longspurs got up
> > and flew, but not in a panic. I got great views of a bright male flying
> > close by.
> > There are many ways to bird. Some times I love to be alone and be slow and
> > try to notice everything. Sometimes it's all out. We chase rare birds, but
> > the journey with friends is the real plus. Wildlife is different every day,
> > and I guess so are we.
> > Enjoy the spring! Steve Thiessen Stoughton Dane co.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carol Jaksic" <carol.jaksic@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Cc: "Wisconsin Birding Network" <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 5:39 PM
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: Question about Smith's Longspurs
> >
> >
> > >I was thinking the same thing Joan. Sounded more like harassment to the
> > >birds. For what, a look, a photograph, an add to a bird list? Aren't
> > >they migrating and wouldn't they need to rest up and eat. That didn't
> > >sound like appropriate birding to me either, but I guess everyone
> > >does their birding differently. I'm wondering too if that is what you
> > >do when you hunt birds, or just send dogs in to flush them out?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Lutes, Jim <jim_lutes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Another GREAT question..Thanks Mike! I should have provided a source
> > >> for finding other WPAs. Anyone can visit the WPA Mapper at
> > >> http://gis.fws.gov/WPA_Mapper/ or just do a search for WPA Mapper.
> > >> The District also has a website
> > >> http://www.fws.gov/refuge/leopold_wmd/ where you can find maps. Just
> > >> be aware that the maps are updated as time allows and may not be up to
> > date.
> > >> *"Anyone can love the mountains, **it takes soul to love the
> > >> prairie."*
> > >>
> > >> Jim Lutes
> > >> Wildlife Biologist
> > >> Horicon NWR/Leopold WMD Complex
> > >> W10040 Cascade Mountain Road
> > >> Portage, WI 53901
> > >> jim_lutes@xxxxxxx
> > >> 608.742.7100 ext. 17 (Office)
> > >> 920.948.4763 (Cell)
> > >> 608.745.0866 (Fax)
> > >> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/horicon/
> > >> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/leopold/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Mike Wanger <misterwanger@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Thank you, Jim -- good comments.
> > >> > I'm wondering if there is a website you could direct me to that
> > >> > lists or maps the locations of these 55 properties? If you'd care
> > >> > to share on the listserv, that might be good too...
> > >> >
> > >> > thanks
> > >> > Mike Wanger
> > >> > Milwaukee
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Lutes, Jim <jim_lutes@xxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Hi Joan -
> > >> >> Great question! So, from a purely regulatory standpoint, WPAs are
> > >> >> open
> > >> to
> > >> >> public access for wildlife dependent activities such as hunting,
> > >> fishing,
> > >> >> wildlife observation and photography, environmental education and
> > >> >> interpretation. I have been excited to read throughout the past
> > >> >> couple
> > >> of
> > >> >> weeks the attention that this property has been receiving!
> > >> >> Shameless
> > >> plug
> > >> >> alert.....there are 54 other such properties throughout
> > >> >> Southeastern Wisconsin! Now, from an ethical and biological
> > >> >> standpoint I have to
> > >> admit
> > >> >> I
> > >> >> had concerns regarding enthusiasts repeatedly flushing birds so
> > >> >> they
> > >> could
> > >> >> make positive identification. I guess in my mind I rationalized it
> > >> >> in these ways, 1) It sounds as if, generally, there were groups pf
> > >> >> people making the trek to see the birds. I would rather see
> > >> >> several people going out once
> > >> or
> > >> >> twice in a day than individuals going out throughout the day and
> > >> >> continuously disrupting the birds. 2) The habitat condition of
> > >> >> this
> > >> field
> > >> >> in particular is in a transient stage being a relatively new
> > >> >> grassland planting. In subsequent years the cover in this field
> > >> >> will become more dense than currently exists until we burn it for
> > >> >> the first time (which should be next spring if our schedule holds)
> > >> >> so I guess I would say
> > >> enjoy
> > >> >> it while it lasts. Lastly, along those "enjoy it while it lasts"
> > >> >> lines
> > >> 3)
> > >> >> this is a great opportunity for enthusiasts of all stripes to
> > >> >> actually visualize the changes in community structure and
> > >> >> diversity which is brought about through restoration and
> > >> >> management. These early stages of restoration have been great for
> > >> >> these longspurs...what will it be next year? Tune in and see!
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> *"Anyone can love the mountains, **it takes soul to love the
> > >> >> prairie."*
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Jim Lutes
> > >> >> Wildlife Biologist
> > >> >> Horicon NWR/Leopold WMD Complex
> > >> >> W10040 Cascade Mountain Road
> > >> >> Portage, WI 53901
> > >> >> jim_lutes@xxxxxxx
> > >> >> 608.742.7100 ext. 17 (Office)
> > >> >> 920.948.4763 (Cell)
> > >> >> 608.745.0866 (Fax)
> > >> >> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/horicon/
> > >> >> http://www.fws.gov/midwest/leopold/
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 8:11 AM, <jsommer2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Hello,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I am not trying to stir the pot but I have a question.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Please don't backchannel me because I am not interested in
> > >> >> > debating or discussing.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I am just wondering why it is ok to have groups of people
> > >> >> > walking out
> > >> >> into
> > >> >> > these fields (which may be questionable in itself) with the sole
> > >> >> > and
> > >> >> only
> > >> >> > purpose to "flush" these birds just so we can see them.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Where is the line that says past this point behavior is harassment.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > That's it.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Joan Sommer
> > >> >> > Fredonia
> > >> >> > Northern Ozaukee County
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > ####################
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> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
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> > >>
> > >>
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