[wisb] Re: Counting after the fact birds
- From: "Seegert, Greg" <gseegert@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "mikeduchek@xxxxxxxxxxx" <mikeduchek@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:40:45 -0400
Based on how I interpret ABA Rule #4, I see no contradiction in counting one
bird but not the other. Rule 4 says "diagnostic field marks, sufficient to ID
to species, must have been seen and/or heard and/or documented....at the time
of the encounter". It goes on to explain that evidence gathered at the time of
the encounter, can be used to make the ID "after the fact, upon consultant with
references and/or authorities." To me that covers the Bairds/WR sandpiper
situation exactly. You saw a bird that you recognized as different, obtained
documentation while you were in the field via the photo, and, after
consultation with "other authorities" you arrived at a correct identification.
The fact that the bird turned out to be something else is not relevant. We
can't always be right the first or second time. What is important is
ultimately getting it right.
In regard to the stint, to me it clearly doesn't meet the criteria set forth in
Rule 4.
As far as I'm concerned, the observer did not "see" the stint as set forth in
the rules.
Whether anyone counts or lists a bird is up to him/her. They can have whatever
rules they what. I'm just saying that under ABA rules, I believe one bird to
be countable, but not the other.
Greg Seegert
Deerfield, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Duchek
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:26 AM
To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [wisb] Re: Counting after the fact birds
I'm still hung up on Greg's scenario. For **BOTH** birds (the western
sandpiper and the stint):
a) You saw both birds, but didn't/couldn't ID either correctly in the field
b) You still didn't/couldn't ID it when you got home looking at your photo
after further consulting your field guides, the Internet, etc...
c) You even had to consult Mr. Expert, and neither bird was correctly
identified UNTIL you received his assistance
I don't get why Greg would count one and not the other in this case. Seems
should be all or nothing to me. Does it matter for the western sandpiper
whether you had it narrowed down to two birds? What if you narrowed it down to
5 species? How about 10? What if you narrowed it down to a particular genus?
What if you narrowed it down to two species, but it turned out to be a third
one you hadn't considered? Seems like the test is "did the bird strike my
fancy at the time" which is a pretty wishy washy test. Regardless, I just
can't see "counting" one and not the other if you needed someone else besides
yourself to help you with both.
In any case, my point was that if the question was "have I ever seen a
red-necked stint" I think I could say yes. Certainly it probably wouldn't
qualify under the ABA rules or the rules of a particular competition, and you'd
put an asterisk by it on your list if you keep a physical one, but I could
still say I've seen one (though with a caveat).
-Mike Duchek, Waukesha
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