(VICT) Re: Dog breeds
- From: Jill Gross <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:30:32 -0400 (EDT)
I always wanted a collie too. When I was a little kid, I taught my
neighbor's collies to go around obstacles when I walked them. They were so
smart. As an adult, I got a collie as a pet. She was very very dumb and
very very sweet. You are right, there is no way I could keep a collie coat
looking neat anymore. I can see where an Ausie coat is tough to maintain
also. I bet she was a dream to train though, they are very smart and eager
to work.
Salukis have great coats to care for. They have very short, almost velvety
hair on their body and some have long silky hair on the ears and tail. You
literally can clean them off with a damp papertowel. They also don't have
any odor like some of the long, heavy coated breeds.
I have had one or two slaukis who are very picky eaters. Most have normal
appetites, but they tend not to be obcessive about food. My salukis will
rarely accept food from the hand of a stranger. I haven't needed to teach
this, they just won't do it. Persia will go as far as to push the person's
hand away with his nose. Such a snob. <G> He has no problem working for
treats though.
Jill
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Sheila Styron wrote:
> Before I knew anything about anything, I wanted a collie for a guide.
> I've never seen a saluki and would love to meet one. My husband's
> retired guide is a very fluffy Australian shepherd, and we get all the
> crowd adoration over his looks as well. I have to do the grooming, and I
> wouldn't choose anything so fluffy for my guide. His legs are short, and
> the fur underneath can easily get wet and muddy not to mention the
> amount that comes out both when grooming and in general. Finally, can
> you please explain why you find clicker training so successful with a
> breed like a saluki that doesn't care much about food?
>
> Sheila Styron, President
> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
> 816-363-3172
> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill
> Gross
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:53 PM
> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Dog breeds
>
>
> Hi Val,
> The Mareemmas you mentioned sound very interesting. My breed of choice
> as
> far as dogs that I have as pets and, secondarily, for comformation
> showing
> are slaukis. I love all of the sighthound breeds. The salukis is
> generally
> very aloof and have a low food drive. They can be very serious out in
> public, but at home they are clown hounds. I think that positive
> training
> is just perfect for sighthounds. I used to have collies and German
> shepherds as pets. When I got into salukis, I had to give up all of the
> old, harsher methods of training. Forget a choke collar, and you
> wouldn't
> dream of giving one a leash correction. Harsh training methods simply
> builds a wall between you and the dog and you are very unlikely to get
> the
> desired result.
>
> Salukis and other sighthounds often said to be dumb by folks who aren't
> very knowledgable about canine behavior. Sighthounds are highly
> intelligent, but they are very oriented toward what's in it for them.
> Again, clicker training is perfect for them.
>
> So, salukis are my breed of choice in general. I can't imaigne life
> without them in my life. Having said that, I am not necessarily planning
>
> on training a saluki as a guide. Back in the 1950's, a saluki breeder
> form
> New York donated a female saluki to the Seeing Eye. She was trained and
> given to David Loux who worked at the school for many years. I contacted
>
> David about ten years ago and asked questions about his experience with
> her. He said that on a scale of one to ten in working ability, she was a
>
> twelve. She was fabulous. His only complaint was that she was too
> serious
> overall as a dog. Needless to say, I often think aobut what David said.
> I have had salukis since 1996. Some have been purchased as pups and
> some have been rescues. Some have had very steady personalities and some
>
> have been what I consider to be too anxious to handle the stress of
> guide
> work.
>
> One problem with a salukis is that they are gorgeous, very elegant
> animals. I have had a couple who, when walked in town, have literally
> stopped traffic. I have often had people leaning out of car windows
> yelling questions about my dogs. It can be difficult enough to keep
> people
> from petting and otherwise distracting a service dog without having them
>
> be extraordinarily striking. I recall that the Seeing Eye would never
> use
> white shepherds for that very reason. They drew too much attention.
>
> I have looked at a couple of other breeds. An interesting one is the
> black
> Russian terrier. The ones I have met are very sound and attentive,
> hard-working dogs. A breeder I know has had a few of her pups trained as
>
> assistance dogs. My problem with them has to do with all of that hair! I
>
> have major carpal tunnel issues and extensive grooming is out of the
> question for me. I have a very ahrd time keeping my long-haired shepherd
>
> looking respectable. A black Russian has a lot of long, heavy coat. They
>
> also are quite large. I can't quite imagine fitting one of these guys
> under a seat on a bus.
>
> I would be interested to hear if others have worked with any "unusual"
> breeds or mixes. When I was a kid, I was super impressed by
> shepherd/collie mixes. They were bright and eager to learn. Nowadays, I
> would be afraid that they got more of the negatives in the mix simply
> because both breeds have been so overbred in this country.
>
> Jill
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Valerie wrote:
>
>> Jill, out of interest what is your preferred breed /breeds of dog
>> since doing your research.? Although both my dogs have been food
>> orientated outside the home particularly the lab, apart from a first
>> few days on arrival here, and being very mischievous with wrecking
>> bedding, they are very well behaved indoors. I could leave any food on
>
>> a table and know it would not be touched, so as far as my two go they
>> are great indoors. I can't remember whether I said one school here is
>> trialling a Maremma cross Retriever, still in training, Mareemma's
>> being the guardian of flocks of animals, sheep, poultry etc. It's said
>
>> they are rather aloof so distraction wise that may be a good trait
>> smile. Regards Valerie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jill Gross" <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:57 PM
>> Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker
>>
>>
>> Jo, I would guess that you probably like the idea of selecting your
>> own dog for training. I think that is the greatest factor for me. I
>> would like to pick my breed based on my research and I would like find
>
>> a dog witht he personality traits that I like in a service dog. I have
>
>> always been very disappointed in the very limited number of breeds
>> utilized by most of the guide dog schools. I know many people who have
>
>> labs as guides and they are thrilled with them. I don't particularly
>> care for them and feel that they have some important traits that
>> decrease there desirability as guides, ie. they are very social and
>> they are extremely food oriented. There are so many fabulous breeds
>> out there and I have have never understood why some of them have never
>
>> been used by the schools. I know there is a small school that uses
>> vislas and Leader will use the occasional bouvier or boxer.
>>
>> I "untrain" my guides to stop at the up-curb on street crossings. I do
>
>> most of my travelling in the city where people often drive
>> wrecklessly. I want my butt and my dog's butt in the street as little
>> as possible. I have always been good able knowing where the up-curbs
>> are, so I find it safer for us to get out of the street quickly. I
>> have always trained my dogs to do other things, some that are
>> practical and some that are fun. I have also found that the dogs that
>> are trained by the schools tend to be unruly in the house. I have had
>> to do significant in-home training with all but one of my dogs. I have
>
>> often wondered how the nondog person who gets a guide handles a guide
>> who wrecks their house.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Jo Clayson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What would you like to do with your dog that the dogs in schools are
>>> not trained for?
>>>
>>> Interesting question. I've never had a dog from a school, and though
>
>>> I know a few people personally that have, I'm not really familiar
>>> with specifically
>>> what behaviors are taught, or not taught.
>>>
>>> Things I teach my dogs:
>>> Tricks: shake hands, roll over, choosing the correct hand in response
> to a
>>> question, speak, etc. Both my dogs and I have fun with these.
> Teaching
>>> a
>>> trick is a good way for me to try out a different training
>>> method....if I really goof up and my dog doesn't do a perfect "play
>>> dead" it's not potentially life threatening for me or my dog. Also,
>>> if my dog has been distracted and needs to focus back on me, tricks
>>> are often a good way to get that focus back. Simply because they are
>
>>> tricks and fun, there isn't the tension in my voice that so easily
>>> communicates to my dog, like when I might
>>> tell her to "leave it" , "quiet" or "sit". A dog that does a few
> tricks
>>> can
>>> also delight other people, and help those who are hesitant or a bit
>>> fearful
>>> around dogs.
>>>
>>> Search & rescue: though we are not part of a search team, I want my
>>> dogs and I to be able to work together in this way. I live on 29
>>> acres of land in a rather remote area with thousands of acres of
>>> undeveloped land adjacent. Should a guest here, or a hunter get lost,
>
>>> or should I be injured and folks
>>> are looking for me, I want my dogs to be able to assist in the
> initial
>>> search.
>>>
>>> Agility - we don't compete, but do this at home for fun, physical
>>> conditioning, and for building teamwork, self-control, and physical
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> "go to the bathroom" - take me to a public restroom . For a dog with
>
>>> a keen sense of smell, this seems to be a fairly easy task.
>>>
>>> Find my stuff: When we are away from home I may have a duffle bag,
> back
>>> pack, jacket , bucket of tools, etc that I set down. Usually I know
>>> where they are, but sometimes I forget, or am "bleary brained" with
>>> chemical exposure and it's handy to have my dog take me to my stuff.
>>>
>>> Go to the car: as I don't drive, and ride with many different
> people,
>>> and
>>> some of the families have more than one vehicle, I sometimes can't
>>> remember what vehicle I'm looking for or where it is parked. Kita
>>> does fairly well already in small parking lots. Zoomer could even
>>> find the vehicle in a very
>>> large lot. It's also been handy for the driver a few times who
> forgot
>>> where
>>> they parked!
>>>
>>> There are probably others. Often my dogs have figured out something
> on
>>> their own that is helpful to me, so I reward and encourage it.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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