(VICT) Re: New member and I clicker
- From: Jill Gross <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
Sounds like that was an expensive trip. <G>
I suppose it is hard for the schools to monitor house manners. The dog is
with the puppy raiser and then comes back for a long stay in a kennel.
There is no way for the trainer to know how diligent the puppy raiser was
with behavior in the house. I lucked out with my first Fidelco shepherd. I
got her in 1987 when the school was still very small. I think they only
placed 25 to 30 dogs each year back then. Ona's trainer actually kept her
at her house with her own dogs for most of the training period. Now that
is ideal, but certainly impractical for trainers with large strings of
dogs.
Jill
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Sheila Styron wrote:
> Jill, It's hard to imagine how dogs with such obviously unsuitable
> manners or traits get by, and it is a credit to your stubborn streak
> that you were able to do as much as you did. I also have stories about
> my youth and dogs but have to admit it was never the house manners. I
> also once had a room mate at SFL who had a dog from that same training
> program you mentioned, who could not be trusted in a room full of socks
> and mittens. The owner did her sad best (I hate to see a dog strictly
> restrained) but I went home with less mittens and socks than I arrived
> with. You know on ski trips, you have to spread things around in the
> room so they can dry out.
>
> Sheila Styron, President
> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
> 816-363-3172
> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill
> Gross
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 12:38 AM
> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker
>
>
> Hi Sheila,
> Nothing boring aobut a guide that you are happy with. My first guide was
> a
> lab from the Seeing Eye. My friends and I firmly believed that she was a
>
> "devil dog" <G>. I have never owned or worked with a dog who was just
> sooo
> bad. I won't even go into how bad she was as a guide. In retrospect, it
> is
> amazing that she and I didn't both get killed on the city streets. I can
>
> tell you one thing, I got very very good at getting us both around. When
>
> training with guides in the future, my trainers would always yell at me
> to
> quit helping the dog so much and let them work for me. It was a bad
> habbit
> that I developed working with that first dog.
>
> When I would go out with friends and leave her home, she would find all
> kinds of creative things to do to torture me. She would take the dirty
> breakfast dishes from the kitchen sink and smash them on the floor. I
> would come home to broken glass all over. Needless to say, I became very
>
> diligent about washing my dishes immediately. <G> I suppose if I had
> known
> about crates back then, I might have found life with her more
> tollerable.
> She is the only animal I have ever given up on and placed in another
> home.
> Despite my training experience, I just felt I could do nothing with her.
>
> She went to live with a very wealthy doctor and finished out her years
> in
> style.
>
> Jill
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Sheila Styron wrote:
>
>> In the interest of fairness, I have had 5 program trained dogs from
>> GDB, who although they have all been quite boring retriever breeds,
>> grin have all had excellent house manners, have had long healthy
>> working lives and have had no serious issues except that the first
>> one, a golden, developed thunder trauma as she aged, which back in the
>
>> seventies, I knew nothing about how to work with.
>>
>> Sheila Styron, President
>> Guide Dog Users, Inc.
>> 816-363-3172
>> sheilastyron@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jill
>> Gross
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:27 AM
>> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker
>>
>>
>> Jo, I would guess that you probably like the idea of selecting your
>> own dog for training. I think that is the greatest factor for me. I
>> would like to pick my breed based on my research and I would like find
>
>> a dog witht he
>> personality traits that I like in a service dog. I have always been
> very
>>
>> disappointed in the very limited number of breeds utilized by most of
>> the guide dog schools. I know many people who have labs as guides and
>> they are
>> thrilled with them. I don't particularly care for them and feel that
>> they
>> have some important traits that decrease there desirability as guides,
>> ie.
>> they are very social and they are extremely food oriented. There are
> so
>> many fabulous breeds out there and I have have never understood why
> some
>>
>> of them have never been used by the schools. I know there is a small
>> school that uses vislas and Leader will use the occasional bouvier or
>> boxer.
>>
>> I "untrain" my guides to stop at the up-curb on street crossings. I do
>
>> most of my travelling in the city where people often drive
>> wrecklessly. I want my butt and my dog's butt in the street as little
>> as possible. I have
>> always been good able knowing where the up-curbs are, so I find it
> safer
>>
>> for us to get out of the street quickly. I have always trained my dogs
>
>> to do other things, some that are practical and some that are fun. I
>> have also found that the dogs that are trained by the schools tend to
>> be unruly
>> in the house. I have had to do significant in-home training with all
> but
>>
>> one of my dogs. I have often wondered how the nondog person who gets a
>
>> guide handles a guide who wrecks their house.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Jo Clayson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What would you like to do with your dog that the dogs in schools are
>>> not trained for?
>>>
>>> Interesting question. I've never had a dog from a school, and though
>
>>> I know a few people personally that have, I'm not really familiar
>>> with
>>
>>> specifically what behaviors are taught, or not taught.
>>>
>>> Things I teach my dogs:
>>> Tricks: shake hands, roll over, choosing the correct hand in response
>> to a
>>> question, speak, etc. Both my dogs and I have fun with these.
>> Teaching a
>>> trick is a good way for me to try out a different training
>>> method....if I really goof up and my dog doesn't do a perfect "play
>>> dead" it's not potentially life threatening for me or my dog. Also,
>>> if my dog has been distracted and needs to focus back on me, tricks
>>> are often a good way to get that focus back. Simply because they are
>
>>> tricks and fun, there isn't the tension in my voice that so easily
>>> communicates to my dog, like when I might tell her to "leave it" ,
>>> "quiet" or "sit". A dog that does a few tricks can also delight
>>> other
>>
>>> people, and help those who are hesitant or a bit fearful around dogs.
>>>
>>> Search & rescue: though we are not part of a search team, I want my
>>> dogs and I to be able to work together in this way. I live on 29
>>> acres
>>
>>> of land in a rather remote area with thousands of acres of
>>> undeveloped
>>
>>> land adjacent. Should a guest here, or a hunter get lost, or should I
>
>>> be injured and folks are looking for me, I want my dogs to be able to
>
>>> assist in the initial search.
>>>
>>> Agility - we don't compete, but do this at home for fun, physical
>>> conditioning, and for building teamwork, self-control, and physical
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> "go to the bathroom" - take me to a public restroom . For a dog with
>
>>> a keen sense of smell, this seems to be a fairly easy task.
>>>
>>> Find my stuff: When we are away from home I may have a duffle bag,
>> back
>>> pack, jacket , bucket of tools, etc that I set down. Usually I know
>>> where they are, but sometimes I forget, or am "bleary brained" with
>>> chemical exposure and it's handy to have my dog take me to my stuff.
>>>
>>> Go to the car: as I don't drive, and ride with many different
>> people, and
>>> some of the families have more than one vehicle, I sometimes can't
>>> remember what vehicle I'm looking for or where it is parked. Kita
>>> does fairly well already in small parking lots. Zoomer could even
>>> find the vehicle in a very large lot. It's also been handy for the
>>> driver a few times who forgot where they parked!
>>>
>>> There are probably others. Often my dogs have figured out something
>> on
>>> their own that is helpful to me, so I reward and encourage it.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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