(VICT) Re: Dog breeds
- From: "Julie J." <jlcrane@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:29:44 -0500
Jill,
I have a friend who has a GSD/rough collie mix as a guide. He is very
pleased with her guide work. What I have observed being around her is that
she is very extremely focused and attentive. However she has a seriously
thick coat that I imagine would require a lot of brushing.
My previous guide was a coonhound mix. I didn't initially plan for her to
be a guide dog so the breed was not chosen based on anything in particular.
She was the most mellow, easy going, go anywhere do anything dog I have ever
known. She could have attended a fireworks display with a pack of
preschoolers in the middle of a marching band and she would not have cared.
However she was also an extremely stubborn dog. Or perhaps it wasn't
stubbornness... just a calm self knowledge that she was always right? LOL
She took a long time to learn new skills, but once something was learned she
would retain it forever even if it was seldom used. Overall she was a good
guide. I wouldn't choose that breed again though.
She taught me how to work as a team member instead of a dictator. She
taught me patience. And most of all she taught me that I could do what I
set my mind to doing.
HTH
Julie
http://www.livingblind.com/eml
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and
those who matter don't mind.
Dr. Seuss
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jill Gross" <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:53 PM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Dog breeds
> Hi Val,
> The Mareemmas you mentioned sound very interesting. My breed of choice as
> far as dogs that I have as pets and, secondarily, for comformation showing
> are slaukis. I love all of the sighthound breeds. The salukis is generally
> very aloof and have a low food drive. They can be very serious out in
> public, but at home they are clown hounds. I think that positive training
> is just perfect for sighthounds. I used to have collies and German
> shepherds as pets. When I got into salukis, I had to give up all of the
> old, harsher methods of training. Forget a choke collar, and you wouldn't
> dream of giving one a leash correction. Harsh training methods simply
> builds a wall between you and the dog and you are very unlikely to get the
> desired result.
>
> Salukis and other sighthounds often said to be dumb by folks who aren't
> very knowledgable about canine behavior. Sighthounds are highly
> intelligent, but they are very oriented toward what's in it for them.
> Again, clicker training is perfect for them.
>
> So, salukis are my breed of choice in general. I can't imaigne life
> without them in my life. Having said that, I am not necessarily planning
> on training a saluki as a guide. Back in the 1950's, a saluki breeder form
> New York donated a female saluki to the Seeing Eye. She was trained and
> given to David Loux who worked at the school for many years. I contacted
> David about ten years ago and asked questions about his experience with
> her. He said that on a scale of one to ten in working ability, she was a
> twelve. She was fabulous. His only complaint was that she was too serious
> overall as a dog. Needless to say, I often think aobut what David
> said. I have had salukis since 1996. Some have been purchased as pups and
> some have been rescues. Some have had very steady personalities and some
> have been what I consider to be too anxious to handle the stress of guide
> work.
>
> One problem with a salukis is that they are gorgeous, very elegant
> animals. I have had a couple who, when walked in town, have literally
> stopped traffic. I have often had people leaning out of car windows
> yelling questions about my dogs. It can be difficult enough to keep people
> from petting and otherwise distracting a service dog without having them
> be extraordinarily striking. I recall that the Seeing Eye would never use
> white shepherds for that very reason. They drew too much attention.
>
> I have looked at a couple of other breeds. An interesting one is the black
> Russian terrier. The ones I have met are very sound and attentive,
> hard-working dogs. A breeder I know has had a few of her pups trained as
> assistance dogs. My problem with them has to do with all of that hair! I
> have major carpal tunnel issues and extensive grooming is out of the
> question for me. I have a very ahrd time keeping my long-haired shepherd
> looking respectable. A black Russian has a lot of long, heavy coat. They
> also are quite large. I can't quite imagine fitting one of these guys
> under a seat on a bus.
>
> I would be interested to hear if others have worked with any "unusual"
> breeds or mixes. When I was a kid, I was super impressed by
> shepherd/collie mixes. They were bright and eager to learn. Nowadays, I
> would be afraid that they got more of the negatives in the mix simply
> because both breeds have been so overbred in this country.
>
> Jill
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Valerie wrote:
>
>> Jill, out of interest what is your preferred breed /breeds of dog since
>> doing your research.? Although both my dogs have been food orientated
>> outside the home particularly the lab, apart from a first few days on
>> arrival here, and being very mischievous with wrecking bedding, they are
>> very well behaved indoors. I could leave any food on a table and know it
>> would not be touched, so as far as my two go they are great indoors.
>> I can't remember whether I said one school here is trialling a Maremma
>> cross
>> Retriever, still in training, Mareemma's being the guardian of flocks of
>> animals, sheep, poultry etc. It's said they are rather aloof so
>> distraction
>> wise that may be a good trait smile.
>> Regards Valerie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jill Gross" <jgross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:57 PM
>> Subject: (VICT) Re: New member and I clicker
>>
>>
>> Jo, I would guess that you probably like the idea of selecting your own
>> dog for training. I think that is the greatest factor for me. I would
>> like
>> to pick my breed based on my research and I would like find a dog witht
>> he
>> personality traits that I like in a service dog. I have always been very
>> disappointed in the very limited number of breeds utilized by most of the
>> guide dog schools. I know many people who have labs as guides and they
>> are
>> thrilled with them. I don't particularly care for them and feel that they
>> have some important traits that decrease there desirability as guides,
>> ie.
>> they are very social and they are extremely food oriented. There are so
>> many fabulous breeds out there and I have have never understood why some
>> of them have never been used by the schools. I know there is a small
>> school that uses vislas and Leader will use the occasional bouvier or
>> boxer.
>>
>> I "untrain" my guides to stop at the up-curb on street crossings. I do
>> most of my travelling in the city where people often drive wrecklessly. I
>> want my butt and my dog's butt in the street as little as possible. I
>> have
>> always been good able knowing where the up-curbs are, so I find it safer
>> for us to get out of the street quickly. I have always trained my dogs to
>> do other things, some that are practical and some that are fun. I have
>> also found that the dogs that are trained by the schools tend to be
>> unruly
>> in the house. I have had to do significant in-home training with all but
>> one of my dogs. I have often wondered how the nondog person who gets a
>> guide handles a guide who wrecks their house.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Jo Clayson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What would you like to do with your dog that the dogs in schools are not
>>> trained for?
>>>
>>> Interesting question. I've never had a dog from a school, and though I
>>> know
>>> a few people personally that have, I'm not really familiar with
>>> specifically
>>> what behaviors are taught, or not taught.
>>>
>>> Things I teach my dogs:
>>> Tricks: shake hands, roll over, choosing the correct hand in response to
>>> a
>>> question, speak, etc. Both my dogs and I have fun with these.
>>> Teaching
>>> a
>>> trick is a good way for me to try out a different training method....if
>>> I
>>> really goof up and my dog doesn't do a perfect "play dead" it's not
>>> potentially life threatening for me or my dog. Also, if my dog has been
>>> distracted and needs to focus back on me, tricks are often a good way to
>>> get
>>> that focus back. Simply because they are tricks and fun, there isn't
>>> the
>>> tension in my voice that so easily communicates to my dog, like when I
>>> might
>>> tell her to "leave it" , "quiet" or "sit". A dog that does a few tricks
>>> can
>>> also delight other people, and help those who are hesitant or a bit
>>> fearful
>>> around dogs.
>>>
>>> Search & rescue: though we are not part of a search team, I want my dogs
>>> and
>>> I to be able to work together in this way. I live on 29 acres of land in
>>> a
>>> rather remote area with thousands of acres of undeveloped land adjacent.
>>> Should a guest here, or a hunter get lost, or should I be injured and
>>> folks
>>> are looking for me, I want my dogs to be able to assist in the initial
>>> search.
>>>
>>> Agility - we don't compete, but do this at home for fun, physical
>>> conditioning, and for building teamwork, self-control, and physical
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> "go to the bathroom" - take me to a public restroom . For a dog with a
>>> keen
>>> sense of smell, this seems to be a fairly easy task.
>>>
>>> Find my stuff: When we are away from home I may have a duffle bag,
>>> back
>>> pack, jacket , bucket of tools, etc that I set down. Usually I know
>>> where
>>> they are, but sometimes I forget, or am "bleary brained" with chemical
>>> exposure and it's handy to have my dog take me to my stuff.
>>>
>>> Go to the car: as I don't drive, and ride with many different people,
>>> and
>>> some of the families have more than one vehicle, I sometimes can't
>>> remember
>>> what vehicle I'm looking for or where it is parked. Kita does fairly
>>> well
>>> already in small parking lots. Zoomer could even find the vehicle in a
>>> very
>>> large lot. It's also been handy for the driver a few times who forgot
>>> where
>>> they parked!
>>>
>>> There are probably others. Often my dogs have figured out something on
>>> their own that is helpful to me, so I reward and encourage it.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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