[sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
- From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "sblumen123@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
- To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 15:11:29 -0400
RR
Even JS is tiring of your know everything and post everything self praising
rants. You accuse Israel as a product of evil Zionism and
genocide because you heard others use that term because of the unequal numbers
of fatalities when if you would think, think,
think that in the whole history of war in my humble observation, only Israel
gave advance warning before striking a target allowing
men, woman and children time to evacuate and the enemy to rush and prepare to
hit back at Israeli's peril to their strike force. If you
applied the same rules to Viet Nam where I understand the ratio to American
losses to the local population which I remember as
about 5 to 1 would you call that our genocide? Can you imagine adding more
names to our Viet Nam wall to equal those on a
similar Viet Nam wall? Consider your total blind eye to the surprise attacks,
rockets, suicide bombers, kidnapping and killings from the day she was born by
the UN and consider the progress of a poor economy to the amazing economy she
now has WITH NO OIL UNDERNEATH.
and in one of the tinyest countrys in the world surrounded by much bigger and
dangerous enemies with LOTS OF OIL UNDERNEATH.
A Jewish religion without a country for years and now their own country. Israel
should be admired and considered as an example.
Stanley the proud Jew
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 5, 2014 2:16 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
JS,
I have a logical mind. I have an open mind. Give me facts that add up. I once
believed a lot of things that I'm not so sure about now. Now I am skeptical of
everything I'm told. When I hear a story I try to understand it. Demonizing
whole populations is one trademark of a lie. I've never met a person who was
that much different than me so whenever I hear one of these stories I try to
put myself in their place and try to understand the motivation for their
actions. People do things for a reason, even if it's just somebody suffering
from drug withdrawal going on a shooting spree. In order to prove a crime one
of the things you have to prove is motive. What's the motive? Who benefits? If
a terrorist attacks it's for a reason. Nobody kills people just because they
don't like them, unless it's for vengeance.
I had to look up sophistry in the dictionary. It means.
1.
a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of
reasoning.
2.
a false argument; sophism.
On that much we agree.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx"
Sent: Sep 5, 2014 11:03 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
Too much sophistry. Gets to be boring.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:29:00 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
JS,
The theme is "Butchers Of The Islamic State". It all centers around Zionism.
Is Zionism the new "N" word or something? Should I be politically correct and
say "Liberals" instead in order to confuse the issue for the mentally
disadvantaged?
Who makes the distinction between "evil" and "innocent human beings". The
innocent women and children of Gaza are evil? The innocent woman and children
murdered by U.S. drone strikes are evil? The people of Gaza are evil because
they desperately try to defend themselves?
I had a nightmare the other night. An overpowering force was about to invade my
position and the only thing I had to defend myself was my 40 S/W handgun. I was
faced with no good choices. I could shoot it out but that would be a really
stupid choice because I would certainly be killed by the superior weapons of
the enemy. I could try tio run but there was nowhere to run. I could try to
hide but that would be a disgusting and shameful way to die. I could surrender
but chances are they would just shoot me. Which choice would you have made?
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sep 5, 2014 8:52 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
Sorry if I hit a nerve. I thought you were capable of an intelligent discourse.
But you always seem to cherry pick something out of context and then climb back
on your soap box.
I was (obviously I thought) referring to the extermination of evil, not
innocent human beings.
I feel nothing but compassion and sorrow for the innocent victims -
Palestinians AND Israelis. I saw it first hand in Vietnam and it is gut
wrenching. But I must say, despite your protestation, all I get out of your
posts is rant after rant about the Zionists. There is no handle of logic or
intellectual honesty to hang on to.
But to give you the benefit of the doubt, I will assume that yours is a wail of
rage against the injustices of this world. And with that I will agree.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:30:31 -0400 (EDT)
JS,
Please take you Jew hater bullshit and peddle it someplace else. I don't hate
anybody. I order to hate somebody you must fear them. They disgust me is all.
You write "And that someone is an evil that needs to be exterminated for the
good of the human race."
Needs to be exterminated for the good of the human race? Where have I heard
that before? You've got to be kidding.
You write "Then you only have the visceral reaction of revenge to work with."
You feel nothing for all the innocent women and children murdered by Zionists
in Gaza? You feel nothing for all the innocent women and children murdered by
drone attacks in other sovereign nations and by bombs in Iraq and other
countries the U.S. has invaded? How do you think those people feel who have had
their innocent family members killed by the U.S. and Israel? Are they just
supposed to sit there and not try to defend themselves anyway they can?
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sep 5, 2014 7:58 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
I think you read too much into it. And there is a difference between cutting
someone's head off with a knife and killing them with a bomb. The intimacy of
beheading someone with a knife requires a visceral hatred - or mental sickness.
Even in combat when the circumstances dictate silent, intimate killing for
reasons of survival, that act is a far cry from decapitation for ideological
reasons. Beheading an enemy evokes such a visceral revulsion in humans it has
been used since time immemorial for that very reason. It is the very definition
of uncivilized, barbaric behavior meant to terrorize the enemy.
Personally, I think you waste too much physic energy in hating Jews. Some of
what you say may well be true. Some not. But either way, why poison your own
spiritual well? You are a wealthy, educated man with a library of life
experience to draw upon. You don't need to waste your energy by allowing hatred
to bleed off your life energy. Though of course it is your perfect right to do
so.
I grant you that videos and movies, even false ones, do move the masses.
Goebbels certainly proved that. They effectively meld fact, fiction and emotion
into a powerful witche's brew of passion and hatred. But those things are
separate from a logical, dispassionate analysis of what's really going on
behind the scenes.
9-11 and the beheadings were historical, horrific events. Who was really behind
them and why are legitimate questions. But you have to start with the basic
events and work from there, no matter what your opinion is as to cause and
motivation. In the end, SOMEONE was responsible. And that someone, is an evil
that needs to be exterminated for the good of the human race.
Which brings us back to the eternal confrontation of good and evil. If you
don't believe in evil, further discourse is pointless.Then you only have the
visceral reaction of revenge to work with. And that, at the end of the day,
leaves you with nothing but a spiritual emptiness. But if you do recognize the
eternal conflict that rages in men's souls, you are responsible for choosing
sides.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 06:41:56 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
JS,
Actually it's anti-semitism since they are semites.
Funny how nobody calls you an anti-semite if you criticize semites but they do
if you criticize Zionists, the vast majority of whom are not semites. How much
more proof does one need that Americans have been trained to bark like Pavlov
dogs by the Zionist mainstream media?
As for cutting off heads:
1. Dead is dead. Is it your opinion that it's atrocious to cut off one or two
heads but it's OK to murders hundred's of thousands using bombs?
2. There's something not right about the videos. Have you seen them? First they
show the victims calmly giving a long speech. Then they show his head on a
table.They are shot in multiple angle HD and only show two people, the victim
and the executioner. It looks like a stage set. They don't show the actual
cutting off of the head.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sep 5, 2014 4:28 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
Racism?! Come on Ron. That is "pure unadulterated" hyperbole.
These scumbags cut off people's heads in the name of Allah. Why you want to
defend them is beyond me.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:24:50 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
JS,
That is pure unadulterated rascism.
Furthermore, despite what government would like you to believe there are no
Islamic terrorists, freedom fighters or other militant groups in the
U.S..Unlike the Zionists, they do not control the government and mainstream
media and are no threat to the American way of life. They are not the ones who
are trying to destroy our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The problem with Muslims is that they are a very religious people and the
communists who run this country do not believe in God. I remember being in
Egypt in 1978 and Egyptians telling me how much they loved Jimmy Carter. In my
experience Muslims are simple people who do not hate anybody. I would never be
a Muslim myself because I find their lifestyle boring but I have never once
felt intimidated being around them. In my life I have spent time in over 100
countries and found people pretty much the same everywhere.
Even in Israel Muslims and Jews lived together peacefully for hundred's of
years before the Zionists invaded and slaughtered Muslims and threw them out of
their homes.
If you want to buy into all the BS propaganda the government is peddling and
are willing to die for it then be my guest but count me out.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sep 4, 2014 11:20 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
I'm sure you will agree that war and conflict has been with man since the
beginning. The horror of killing and watching friends being killed strikes a
cord in the human psyche that scars and alters a man irrevocably. It is
antithical to the human spirit which, in need of self preservation, allows
itself to become deadened to the pain. The result expresses itself in
brutality. Which is just another face of evil.
As with any conflict, you can argue cause and effect, aggression and revenge.
But I think what we have in the current situation goes deeper. It is a clash of
cultures that are fundamentally and diametrically opposed to each other - the
ethics of the 7th century versus the morality of the 21st.
The Geneva Convention didn't come about because the war mongers developed a
conscience. What they did realize is that without some semblance of rules,
participants and societies would become insane and self destructive - mutually
assured destruction of the temporal world we live in. It was grudgingly
accepted that there would always be winners sand losers.
Enter the current Sharia based bestiality of Islam, a true culture of death,
and all bets are off. Dealing with a rabid animal is a fair analogy. It is
either you or it and the only mode of communication is violence. This is a
long way from Clausewitz's dictum that war is simply a continuation of politics
by other means.
What we are dealing with in ISIS is evil, pure and simple. Explanations and
analysis of it's motives is futile redundancy. Or as my old Gunny Sargent was
fond of saying, "Kill em all and let God sort them out."
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:20:47 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
JS,
What the article is saying is that the U.S. is responsible for creating Islamic
extremism in the first place, starting all the way back with Osama Bin Laden.
Al Queda was created by the CIA in order to fight Russia in Afghanistan. The
"war on terror" will never be won by invading other countries and killing the
local citizens. What has the war on terror accomplished? Nothing. It has been
the cause of hundred's of thousands of deaths, mostly of innocent civilians,
and has created more and more radical Muslims. All the killing and torture and
deaths of American soldiers did not bring back any of the people who died on
9/11. Two wrongs never make a right.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sep 4, 2014 9:57 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Butchers Of The Islamic State
RR
Just wondering...is this supposed to represent some kind of moral equivalency?
I notice he didn't mention any details about why the Marine recon team urinated
on that dead Taliban. Here's some genuine moral equivalency. One of their team
members had been captured, tortured then mutilated. Penis cut off and stuffed
in his mouth. (didn't see any mention of that in the article.)
When the team wiped them out in a firefight, pissing on the corpse of one of
these animals was pretty light payback in my opinion. I would have joined in.
At any rate, this kind of "journalism" which is transparently predicated on
some kind of supposed "moral equivalency" is pathetic. No one said war was a
soccer game. Nor that atrocities are not committed. But presenting this
article as some kind of "proof" that we are the cause of all the trouble over
there is less than convincing to say the least.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Butchers Of The Islamic State
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 08:35:12 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
by Tom Engelhardt • September 3, 2014
In that largely Muslim part of the world, the U.S. left a grim record that we
in this country generally tend to discount or forget when we decry the
barbarism of others. We are now focused in horror on ISIS’s video of the murder
of journalist James Foley, a propaganda document clearly designed to drive
Washington over the edge and into more active opposition to that group.
We, however, ignore the virtual library of videos and other imagery the U.S.
generated, images widely viewed (or heard about and discussed) with no less
horror in the Muslim world than ISIS’s imagery is in ours. As a start, there
were the infamous “screen saver” images straight out of the Marquis de Sade
from Abu Ghraib prison. There, Americans tortured and abused Iraqi prisoners,
while creating their own iconic version of crucifixion imagery. Then there were
the videos that no one (other than insiders) saw, but that everyone heard
about. These, the CIA took of the repeated torture and abuse of al-Qaeda
suspects in its “black sites.” In 2005, they were destroyed by an official of
that agency, lest they be screened in an American court someday. There was also
the Apache helicopter video released by WikiLeaks in which American pilots
gunned down Iraqi civilians on the streets of Baghdad (including two Reuters
correspondents), while on the sound track the crew are heard wisecracking.
There was the video of U.S. troops urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban
fighters in Afghanistan. There were the trophy photos of body parts brought
home by U.S. soldiers. There were the snuff filmsof the victims of Washington’s
drone assassination campaigns in the tribal backlands of the planet (or “bug
splat,” as the drone pilots came to call the dead from those attacks) and
similar footage from helicopter gunships. There was the bin Laden snuff film
video from the raid on Abbottabad, Pakistan, of which President Obama
reportedly watched a live feed. And that’s only to begin to account for some of
the imagery produced by the U.S. since September 2001 from its various
adventures in the Greater Middle East.
All in all, the invasions, the occupations, the drone campaigns in several
lands, the deaths that ran into the hundreds of thousands, the uprooting of
millions of people sent into external or internal exile, the expending of
trillions of dollars added up to a bin Laden dreamscape. They would prove
jihadist recruitment tools par excellence.
When the U.S. was done, when it had set off the process that led to
insurgencies, civil wars, the growth of extremist militias, and the collapse of
state structures, it had also guaranteed the rise of something new on Planet
Earth: ISIS – as well as of other extremist outfits ranging from the Pakistani
Taliban, now challenging the state in certain areas of that country, to Ansar
al-Sharia in Libya and al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen.
Though the militants of ISIS would undoubtedly be horrified to think so, they
are the spawn of Washington. Thirteen years of regional war, occupation, and
intervention played a major role in clearing the ground for them. They may be
our worst nightmare (thus far), but they are also our legacy – and not just
because so many of their leaders came from the Iraqi army we disbanded, had
their beliefs and skills honed in the prisons we set up (Camp Bucca seems to
have been the West Point of Iraqi extremism), and gained experience facing U.S.
counterterror operations in the “surge” years of the occupation. In fact, just
about everything done in the war on terror has facilitated their rise. After
all, we dismantled the Iraqi army and rebuilt one that would flee at the first
signs of ISIS’s fighters, abandoning vast stores of Washington’s weaponry to
them. We essentially destroyed the Iraqi state, while fostering a Shia leader
who would oppress enough Sunnis in enough ways to create a situation in which
ISIS would be welcomed or tolerated throughout significant areas of the country.
The Escalation Follies
When you think about it, from the moment the first bombs began falling on
Afghanistan in October 2001 to the present, not a single U.S. military
intervention has had anything like its intended effect. Each one has, in time,
proven a disaster in its own special way, providing breeding grounds for
extremism and producing yet another set of recruitment posters for yet another
set of jihadist movements. Looked at in a clear-eyed way, this is what any
American military intervention seems to offer such extremist outfits – and ISIS
knows it.
And keep one thing in mind: if the U.S. were truly capable of destroying or
crushing ISIS, as our secretary of state and others are urging, that might
prove to be anything but a boon. After all, it was easy enough to think, as
Americans did after 9/11, that al-Qaeda was the worst the world of Islamic
extremism had to offer. Osama bin Laden’s killing was presented to us as an
ultimate triumph over Islamic terror. But ISIS lives and breathes and grows,
and across the Greater Middle East Islamic extremist organizations are gaining
membership and traction in ways that should illuminate just what the war on
terror has really delivered. The fact that we can’t now imagine what might be
worse than ISIS means nothing, given that no one in our world could imagine
ISIS before it sprang into being.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-islamic-state-spawn-of-washingtons-wars-of-terrror/
-RR
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