Let me know how that works out for you! ;') At 04:27 PM 12/3/2004 -0500, Kai Keskinen wrote: >If you combined a tool like FlowEMC with a tool like SpecctraQuest or >Hyperlynx, with a logic simulator that allowed you to exercise the >board/system in a fully functional manner, so that the simulated ibis >devices were triggering at the right timing intervals and sending their >voltages/currents down the simulated tracks with the simulated planes/shapes >and sucking up and sourcing current through the simulated power delivery >system, in the simulated housing/shelf/frame with the attached I/O and power >cables, you could in theory get some reasonably accurate emissions profiles >for your board/housing/shelf/system if direct emissions from the chip >packages were ignored. You would also need massive memory and cpu capacity. >I apologize for the run on sentence. > >By properly using SI tools, EMC tools, and your experience, you can design >to minimize EMI and EMC susceptibility as well as quickly troubleshoot for >EMI/EMC failures. Every design is a balance between meeting >functionality/specs and cost. The design tools let you understand and >evaluate the compromises so that you can meet your design requirements at >the minimum cost ($, space, weight, power, ...). > >Cheers, > >-----Original Message----- >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Chris Cheng >Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:13 AM >To: 'Charles Grasso '; Chris Cheng; 'zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx '; >'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ' >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: EMI simulation tools at PCB level > > >You mean the =22 part ? :-D > >Seriously, I know it is understandable and explainable but I want it to be >automatically predicted and simulated by a tool. It is easy to fix and patch >after the fact but I have yet to see a tool to tell me ahead of time the db >and peaks location. A bare PCB with a few "experimental traces" as in some >EMI papers, sure. A multi-boards system with chassis and spaghetti cables >come out ? Show me the money. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles Grasso >To: Chris.Cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx; zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Sent: 12/2/2004 10:31 PM >Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: EMI simulation tools at PCB level > >Chris - It would be *much* easier for you to contact some experienced >EMC >engineers - the phenomena you describe are understandabe and >explainable. > >-----Original Message----- >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Chris Cheng >Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:13 PM >To: 'zhang_kun@xxxxxxxxxx'; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: EMI simulation tools at PCB level > > >I am sure the consumer product guys will laugh at my stupidity but I can >never design a PCB that will pass FCC B without a large metal cage >chassis. >I've always wanted to simulate why if I tighten the screw by one more >turn >on my door and my EMI gaskets compressed a little harder and the >signature >changed by 10 db. Or if I hang the cable this way or that way the >signature >changed by a few db. What I am trying to say is while EMI from PCB may >be >the source, the enclosure/environment the PCB is in seems to have a >bigger >impact on whether you are passing FCC than the PCB itself. Granted this >is >just from an incompetent designer like me who cannot ship an absolute >clean >PCB that can be wrapped in a plastic bag and passing FCC. Any simulation >tools that can help me ? > >ps Is there any way I can receive messages from the list from outside >the US >without these =2 =22 ? I know the US or English language is not the >center >of the Universe so I appolgize in advanced. >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from si-list: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > >For help: >si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > >List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > >List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > >List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list >or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > Ron Matthews Draper Labs 555 Technology Square Cambridge, MA 02139 Voice: 617-258-2519 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu