Dianne, You just said the key thing.? Anything in the wrong hands is dangerous.? However, with the right person and the right trainer, all these tools are positive.? They are not to be used to abuse a dog, only to train.? The concept is to get the dog under control so the dog can be walked/worked with a flat collar or choke chain, with only direction needed from the handler.? OTOH, training tools, in the right hands, gives the owner control and produces a great Ambassador of our Breed.? Flexi's allow NO control and should be outlawed.? I hate them and the owners who are oblivious to what their dogs are doing at the end of the Flexi.? They should?not be allowed at dog shows at all.? I do not want some unknown dog in my dog's face.? I keep a tight reign on my dogs and do not appreciate people who pay no attention to their dogs and let them wander at will and get in my dog's space.? Flexi's are not a training tool.? They are?the lazy man's way of giving their dog exercise and freedom.? JMHO. Laura???? Laura -----Original Message----- From: Kmgraphic2@xxxxxxx To: Stormy435@xxxxxxx; spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:34 pm Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Prong Discussion In a message dated 10/14/08 12:08:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Stormy435@xxxxxxx writes: > I have seen some abuse > in the ring by handlers with the choke collar, the dog jerked so fiercely > that > the dog was jerked up and back off the ground. That to me is abusive. > aboslutely true. so is letting a dog "hang" from the noose on a grooming table, all in the name of "teaching" the dog to behave. i still hold to my belief that prong collars are unnecessary and are often used by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. personally, i also detest flexi-leads as well. it is not the leads themselves but the idiots who ue them and let their dogs out on 15 feet of nylon cord. inevitably, as the flexi-dog charges yours, you can usually hear the owner yelling, "my dog is friendly." drives me nuts. let's face it, folks, the most abusive tool used on animals is the human hand; the object in it only does the person's bidding. diane Diane Strasser Silstra German Shepherds<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)</HTML> ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============= =============================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================