I was dead set against using a pinch collar. It was cruel and heartless and my need for a pinch collar was an indication of my lack of training abilities. My GSD, Rex, was an oversized, strong willed, tough dog with a sharp mind and a humourous spirit. I had already put a CD on him and I was an assistant obedience instructor for a well known instructor, Mary Lou Hughes. We taught the Volhard method, which is a structured program that is very motivational. As a behaviorist, Wendy Volhard is one of the pioneers in using an understanding of basic drives to utilize a dog's own motivations to train. She has been extremely successful as an OB competitor at the highest levels and has written many books. I ended up going to her school for obedience instructors -- a very intensive one-week course that starts at breakfast and ends about 9:00 at night. Since there are three obedience classes a day as well as additional training sessions, it is recommended that you take two dogs so you don't exhaust them. I took Rex and my sheltie, Misty. On the third day, Wendy introduced me to the pinch collar -- for Rex. When other students asked how she could ever recommend a pinch collar she'd point to me and say in a cultured English accent, "I have a student whose dog is as big as she is (that is when I was much thinner). He's a dominant male who can push her every button, is tough as nails and has a very high pain tolerance. She needs a little extra help." She showed me how to use it. By the way, he could and would do a 198 point routine when he wanted. The next day he would jump out of the ring to lick a child's ice cream cone and then jump back in the ring to beautifully finish the off lead exercise. While at the school, I was taking a class on recalls and he came to me than kept running. There was a lake in the distance where the water sports were being taugh. Wendy, in her soft spoken way said, "On my! He's going to take a swim." He returned about 15 minutes latter happy as a little clam. Well, next class, she had him wearing a pinch. He did a well timed lunge and yelped. He looked at me and paid attention. He wasn't hurt just surprised. Now, she did say it should never be used in a beginner class. The handler needs to learn how to control the dog and gain control of the leash before a pinch is ever introduced, and there are specific ways to train using a pinch, since it is not allowed in OB or even on show grounds. It has its place and I have never had to use one since. Loved that dog. Lee Smith ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================