The first time I got shocked with the invisible fence... (setting up the perimeter). I packed it in a box and sold it on Ebay. I am not fundamentally opposed to shock collars, but I've seen dogs that I wish had one on at that moment. I never needed it until I got two males. I can walk one at a time on a flat collar. Walking two or more requires the help of a prong. Denise W. http://sabianshepherds.tripod.com for show and performance *join my site ring* ----- Original Message ---- From: Cinosam GSD <cinosamgsd@xxxxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:21:54 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Prong Discussion I agree....prong collars are a godsend for many dog owners....I don't find the need as much with GSD's but I see nothing wrong with it. If you want to feel pain try putting shock collar on your arm. Now that hurts....or at least according to my nephew it did. :o) Cindy myjoygs@xxxxxxx wrote: If you put the collar up on your arm and tug, does it hurt, do you see blood... no.? Used correctly and I emphasize correctly, it is a great training tool.? I too used to look with horror on these collars until I tested it out.? They look nastier then what they really are and if you have a strong and head strong dog, it is very helpful.? The dogs respect it.? -----Original Message----- From: Jessica MacMillan To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 2:54 pm Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Prong Discussion LMAO as I read all the responses here... I have two pinch/prong collars. I use them because I hate chain collars alot (though I do use them). We use them when we go camping and walking at the campgrounds and I use them when I am biking. My dogs are very well trained and have almost perfect manners.. HOWEVER, I have been dealing with dogs all of my life and my shoulders and elbows are a bit beat up. It is easier, for me to have a pinch collar on the dogs and not have to give them a chain collar correction for something such as pulling after a critter, etc. Funny thing is if pinch collars are so horrible, why do my dogs start bouncing up and down when they see them.... Maybe because they are a positive thing? Any thing can be used inhumanely - whether it be a crate, a chain collar, etc.... It is all about education and most doggy items do have their place if they are properly used. People who abuse pinch collars often have a problem understanding how they work and that is because nobody explained it to them. To me, as a GSD person, it is important that my dogs maintain a good image in public - with proper training and manners (and a little help from a prong collar at times). Jess M.Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com)& The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC)Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================