You're right, I've never owned a champion. Haven't been able to GET that far. Need to be able to buy a dog first. But quite frankly, I don't think one should need to own a champion in order to know what is great, good, or mediocre! Owning/showing/breeding champions has nothing to do with knowing what is the best and what is mediocre! You either know and have a good eye, or you don't! That's the point people are trying to make, and to try to make others opinions seem less just because they don't OWN a champion...to me, that seems a bit silly. And when you say somebody needs to own something to know something...well, it doesn't make sense to me. You use the terrier analogy, but you don't know anything about terriers (like you said). But does that mean we in Shepherds who are talking about mediocrity but don't have a CH don't know anything about GSDs? Certainly not! - Jackie In a message dated 7/10/2006 3:54:00 PM Central Daylight Time, Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx writes: BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION (that's why I recopied THEIR posts) HAVE NEVER EVEN OWNED A CH????? ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================