They just did a test on elephants to see if they have a sense of self by marking an elephant with a white X on it's head with paint. The elephant stood in front of the mirror and after seeing it's reflection, tried to remove it. I do believe that elephants are smarter than dogs....but I think that a similar test would be something that you could try on your dog. Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com MarcatoGSD@xxxxxxx wrote: I don't. The most simple test is the mirror test. Maybe some dogs DO have a sense of self, but every dog I have seen, including my own who is very smart and quite the problem solver, looks into the mirror and doesn't show any inclination that they know it's them. Some just sit and stare or seem disinterested, others bark at it and wag their tails, and others try to engage the reflection in the mirror. To me that says there's no sense of self. Sense of self is recognizing who one's self is and having aspirations, and while dogs are highly intelligent and wonderful creatures, I have not seen any inkling that dogs have a sense of self. In a message dated 11/12/2006 9:41:51 PM Central Standard Time, karekedi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: I think that would be a very hard thing to prove or disprove I don't. The most simple test is the mirror test. Maybe some dogs DO have a sense of self, but every dog I have seen, including my own who is very smart and quite the problem solver, looks into the mirror and doesn't show any inclination that they know it's them. Some just sit and stare or seem disinterested, others bark at it and wag their tails, and others try to engage the reflection in the mirror. To me that says there's no sense of self. Sense of self is recognizing who one's self is and having aspirations, and while dogs are highly intelligent and wonderful creatures, I have not seen any inkling that dogs have a sense of self. In a message dated 11/12/2006 9:41:51 PM Central Standard Time, karekedi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: I think that would be a very hard thing to prove or disprove - Jackie Marcato Shepherds Where it's about function, not flash ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================ Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================