Sounds like this AKC rep has some issues with control and power. I'd complain about her. I have to laugh about the excuse that doubling is disruptive when most all breed shows are absolutely chaotic outside of the ring, not to mention the many people that show with squeaky toys and other noise makers, why is that okay? One question, it is my understanding that no doubling is a guideline not a rule, so how could wins be taken away by an AKC rep? Cindy Cinosamgsd.com MASSTANA@xxxxxxx wrote: Well, Becky alluded to it earlier in a post to the List. Now I would like to add some more to her comments. At the Worcester shows in Mass this weekend, we had a great entry for an indoor series of shows. Diverse judges, a bit bigger ring and an overall nice facility. On Friday there were two Specialities, one in the am with Rita Sandell and the other in the afternoon with Charlotte LaRosa. Rita's ring was ok for an indoor ring with two large pillors in the center of the ring about 4ft by 4ft square each separated by 10 feet or so. Her ring was 50 or 60 feet long and maybe 25ft wide. But at least she could see them run on both long sides. This is where we got our first inkling of what was in store for us. While I was doubling my dog in the Am Bred class, I did a short whistle to see if I could get his attention before the group started out (9 dogs). Or maybe I called his name. Now I know that is verboten but what the heck it was a big show and this was a big class. An AKC rep came up and said don't do that. So ok, no more name calling and no short whistle. Then, just before he started around the ring again I gave a kissing sound. Not loud, but enough to get his attention before all the clapping started, I hoped. No such luck, but sure enough the Rep came up and told me to stop again. So I stopped. In the meantime 8 other exhibitors were doubling their dogs in the ring. I am sure she went up to as many as she could find and gave them warnings. Mind you there were no other classes within 4 rings of ours as this was not an all breed show. There were other specialty shows going on however. She was there because, she said that she had been asked to keep the Shepherd people quiet prior to the show starting. The other breeds were tired of the doubling that went on with the Shepherd folks. What a crock! Ok she was within her rights with regard to loud noises and name calling. No problem. But a kiss? Or even (as it occurred on the second day) not even a movement that would alert a dog!!! Oh well. In the 2nd show under Charlotte, the AKC rep warned her, and us, that she would take down the wins if she observed doubling that was not censored by the judge. To my way of thinking this puts the judge in the untenable position of, while watching a dog, if it perked up it's ears, she was obliged to look into the spectators and determine who made the dog look up!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then make sure the person stopped that. I didn't think that was supposed to happen!!!!!!!!!! I didn't think the judge was supposed to know who owned the dog. Best solution of all, obviously, is to double your opponents dogs!!!! Wow what a neat way to eliminate the competition! Charlotte's ring was abominable. About 50 ft long by about 15ft wide. And the ring entry was in the middle of one of the long sides. In order to get a good view on the one good side, she should literally have stood outside the ring and viewed the dogs gaiting only in one direction between two pillors. Obviously this made the AKC reps job much easier. All she had to do was stand at the one end of the ring. Anyone who moved, she glared at. If a dog looked in that direction, that was a sin and she was going to find the devil that caused such a breech of etiquette. She was nasty, threatening and otherwise an unpleasant person. In fact during that show one of the exhibitors got nasty back at her and they threw him out and banned him from ever coming back to that show again. He was lucky, I suppose, that he wasn't suspended by the AKC from ever showing again anywhere in the US. Mind you this all happened while his bitch was in first place and trying to stay there. The 3rd show was even worse. We were back in the "big ring" for Sue Godek's show and she had 72 entries. Now we are part of an All Breed show and other breeds were all around. This time the AKC rep placed additional Stewards outside the ring with instructions to throw out anybody they caught doubling. Again on standing while the judge was looking at my dog and the handler was fussing with him to make him look just so, I made a slight kissing sound. Next thing I know I have two guys standing, one on each side of me, threatening me with eviction if I did that again. And the rep was 20 feet away glowering. So I shut up. The dog never did raise his head at that time and no more than 20 seconds later, on standing, he was placed 2nd. Now isn't that special. I almost lost it, but didn't. One could only wonder what these people would think of the doubling at the German Sieger Show!!!!!!!!!!!!! We pulled our entries for the 4th show, more because of our bitch came down with something, "crud", or what we don't know. But also because there was no fun in just sitting there watching many dogs go around with their heads down and not using themselves the way they were built to. These shows weren't fun at all. I am sure the winners had fun, but that takes care of some 3 owners for each show. Many of the exhibitors were unhappy. Even some of the winners. Interestingly there were a number of handlers who were happy to see this all playing out because they had "bait trained" their dogs and didn't need to have their dogs alerted at just the right time. I guess the answer is to train our dogs to respond to bait. But what if the dog doesn't take to bait training in the ring? At an all breed show you are skrewed! Thanks for listening. I feel better now. PS: Big congratulations to all the winners. Some really beautiful dogs and bitches. John **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================