Hi Carlos,I used to use a Contax II, it is indeed a real precision piece and the lenses were fantastic for their time and not bad for today either. I rather like the look and sometimes use an old Leica mount copy Sonnar (made by Nikon) on my M8. You get used to the film loading on the Contax. I actually used the Zeiss cassette system in mine for some time, where the keys in the base open and shut the light trap, and the Contarex exchangeable backs! My prints from my M8 impress me more than any camera I have ever owned, though it is rather expensive I agree. One of its attractions, aside from the images, is that in use it is most like the cameras familiar to me, not like a computer which takes control from the photographer. On top of that it can use all my lenses from the newest super lenses to the old ones with that special look. I don't know of another digital camera which can do this. I must admit that, much as I enjoyed the darkroom, I am somewhat impatient and childish so the ability to look through my results as soon as I get home is a real benefit of digital for me.
best regards, Frank On 13 Jan, 2009, at 10:13, Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:
Frank, the Leica M8 has not impressed me, I have seen prints and images in Flickr and there is nothing to say: wow!, except for the price, it's more expensive than a new Rolleiflex FT (I have also seen the 2007 LUG book).Some color images in Flickr look very good. I only need manual controls for shutter speeds and f stops and a good lens to take a photograph,seeing the results in the darkroom if I shoot B&W, this is the way I enjoy photography. The 1937 Contax II has been a nice surprise to me, except for the system to load film, you need to crop the film tab to insert it in the spool.Best regards Carlos--- El mar 13-ene-09, Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:De: Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: OT Ancient Computers (was Re: Re: Rollei - Singapore) now analogue versus digitalPara: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Fecha: martes, 13 de enero de 2009, 5:38 am The grains in the emulsion are not that thick. The 3 dimensionality you see is, in my opinion, more likely to be an optical characteristic than anything to do with grains verses pixels, which I do not think differ as greatly as you imply. I still get a great 3 dimensional look to my pictures using my Leica M8 like I did with my M6 on film. IMHO it is a lens characteristic. Pity I can't get a digital image from my 3.5f to compare! best regards. Frank On 12 Jan, 2009, at 21:01, Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:The limit to appreciate the image quality is the humaneye capacity,film and digital means have surpassed the human eyecapacity toappreciate sharpness differences widely, f.e. thehuman eye can'tdistinguish in the monitor screen a digital image at24 bits and at48 bits, the human eye can't distinguish a printedimage denser thanX lines per mm. The issue is the way the observerperceive the imageand there is a real difference for grain and pixels,it is difficultor impossible to see in the monitor screen in general,however awell worked analog image has a three dimensionsquality due to thegrains physical structure absent in the pure pixelimage.Carlos --- El lun 12-ene-09, Frank Dernie<Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>escribió:De: Frank Dernie<Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: OT Ancient Computers(was Re: Re: Rollei -Singapore) now analogue versus digital Para: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Fecha: lunes, 12 de enero de 2009, 5:21 pm Carlos, I have been taking pictures since I was 11, in1961. Formost of that time I have had my own darkroom. I amquiteaware of what one can do with film, and obviouslybettertechnicians that I can get better results than I.Howeverthe dynamic range of readily available digitalsensorsexceeds that of colour films now. The non linear Sshape tothe characteristic curve of films does allow moredetail tobe seen in either highlights or shadows if somanipulated.Similar manipulations are possible on digitalfiles ifdesired. There is a potential for Moire effects when thereis detailin a scene and resolution in the lens high enoughto exceedthe resolution of the sensor. Anti-aliasingfilters are thenormal way to avoid this effect, in electronicstoo. In thecase of photography there are sensors which exceedtheresolution of all but a few of the mostspecialised lensesavailable for the camera. The anti-aliasing filterisprobably not necessary in those cases since thefunction iscarried out by the lens. My Leica M8 does not havean antialiasing filter and I have yet to be unable todeal with anyunfortunate artefacts due to this. Quite theopposite infact, I get better results from it than I do frommytheoretically superior Canon EOS 1Ds mk2, thoughtthat isprobably the better lenses. Sharpening can certainly be overdone, but it isnotcommonly the case, and I certainly would advisenot toover-sharpen :-) On digital one eventually gets to individualpixels, likeon film one eventually gets to individual grains.There is adifference but just a question of how you dealwith it, thisdifference between film and digital is not IMHOsignificant.The only area where I have found digital a bitmoredifficult than film is in focussing. My M8 is somuchsharper than my M6 with Kodachrome that any smallfocussingerrors, either due to myself or the dreaded focusshift onstopping down, are much more troublesome than wererevealedby the somewhat more forgiving softness (andperhapsvariations in flatness???) of film. best regards, Frank On 12 Jan, 2009, at 19:55, Carlos Manuel Freazawrote:Frank, I really can't imagine the way youuse yourfilm cameras to obtain those conclusions.Films have personality; DSLRs don't. WhilemanyDSLRs let you dial in higher or lower saturationandcontrast, those crude adjustments can'tcompare to therichness of film, whether Velvia's crisp,saturated lookor the delicate tonal shoulder of Tri-X.(Black-and-white isa particular challenge for digital, especiallyin-camera.)Film can be manipulated to soak up even moreof ascene's tonal extremes. You can rein inhighlights by"pulling," or shortening, thedevelopment ofb&w film. You compensate for this by addingexposurewhen shooting, improving shadow detail. You canoverexposecolor negative film by as much as four stops toincreaseshadow detail and reduce contrast, withoutdamaginghighlight nuances.Some super-duper digital backs claim to matchorexceed the range captured by film. If you canafford them,go for it -- and bring along your laptop.You can sharpen a digital image in software.And withmost DSLRs you must, because images areconsiderablysoftened by anti-aliasing filters that keep theirsensorsfrom recording jagged edges and moiré patterns.Yet if youoverdo your sharpening, the image can take on a distractingly "crispy" appearance. Thesharpnessyou get from film is more natural looking.(Some parts above were taken from a Pop Photoarticleby Russell Hart)Digital is very practical to use for a lot ofsituations and well balanced images look very nicein themonitor screens, but most of them don't showthe detailrichness and tones subtleties you can obtain froma neg orslide for prints, magazines, projection, booksetc. andI'm talking about a 35mm format.Carlos --- El lun 12-ene-09, Frank Dernie<Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:If you shoot large format that can betrue.For mediumformat or what used to be called"miniatureformat" when I started photographythis isnot true.The only film parameter which has thepotential bebetterthan digital is -perhaps- resolution, butonlyvery slowblack and white films in ideal exposureconditions.In all other respects digital is superior- in myexperience. My Rolleiflex 6008i is not capable ofproducingcolourpictures to match those from several of mydigitalcameras.35mm has been behind for years. I am not aware of -anybody- with in depthexperience ofboth who would agree with you. Perhaps I am going to get the firstconvincinginformationas a result of this email! best regards, Frank I am comparing Velvia, Provia, KodachromeinCanon, Leica,Rollei and Mamiya film cameras (up to6x7cm) withdigitalfrom Leica M8, Canon EOS 1Ds mk2 and NikonD3.Most recentlyI have been trying a Nikon D3x but havenot formedanyconclusions yet since I have not shot withitenough.On 12 Jan, 2009, at 16:13, Carlos ManuelFreazawrote:--- El lun 12-ene-09, Frank Dernie<Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>escribió:In all practical ways digital hasexceededthecapabilityof film for some time. Certainlyif thereis aneffect whichone wishes to achieve, using avintage LFlens forexample,film may have to be the choice butthatdoes notmake filmbetter, just an appropriate choicein somecircumstances.Film is the best choice when you needthehighestimage quality.-Carlos Yahoo! 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