Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
- From: Dave <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:17:47 -0700
Imo, what you're asking for here would require more than a pay as you
go voice plan depending on where you need to check bus times. If
you're able to limit your web browsing over WiFi, then Mobile Speak
plus any of their supported modern phones with built in wifi could
work (Nokia n82, n86, e72, etc.). This would require purchasing the
screen reader on top of purchasing the phone (without contract since
you don't want the monthly commitment). If you want to check bus
times while out and about, then you'll need to subscribe to a 3g
dataplan (monthly charge).
The other option is to get a pre-used iPhone. Imo, iPhone has the
best out of the box user experience out of all phones out there
currently. Since the device is so tightly controlled (app store,
simplified UI, etc.), the UI within app's stays fairly conformant to
UIKit standard controls. You also have the advantage of a built-in
screen reader, VoiceOver, that imo has the best fundamentals of any
mobile screen reader out there. It gives you nuanced feedback via
sound icons and appropriate speech feedback without getting too
verbose. It also is the most responsive out of the bunch and supports
braille. It also works with far more applications than any screen
reader combo coupled with any other platform out there (just take a
look at the VIPhone googlegroup).
Android, at the moment, tends to be very spotty and has a few places
that simply dont' work. I would say the learning curve therefore to
learn all the workarounds is fairly high. However, many of the folks
on this list like its openness and thus its hackability. You do
basically have the power of linux in your pocket; you can shell into
the device, modify the fs or rewrite/recompile the entire stack
(system, kernel, and more). You can easily write and deploy your own
app's and do something about the inaccessibility. But, it's
definitely not meeting the same bar set by Mobile Speak or the even
higher bar set by iPhone. It, for example, has poor screen reader
functionality (responsiveness, navigation/linearization of focus,
appropriate speech feedback for on-screen events, etc).
On 7/30/10, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> hi,
>
> thanks, can you explain how much something like this is per month?
> all i want is a phone that talks and all i use it for is to call a
> client/check if they will be home, and occasionally check bus times and
> don't want another charge per month.
> a pay as you go recharge of $100 lasts me at least 4-6 months.
> Bryan Schulz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: RE: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>
>
>> Hi Brian,
>> Few things and answers:
>> * Code Factory just announced that Mobile Speak now supports HTC HD2, a
>> completely touchscreen device running Windows Mobile 6.5 Professional.
>> * Windows Mobile phones are still readily available (I have a Windows
>> Mobile
>> phone (HP iPAQ Glisten) with a touchscreen and a QWERTY keyboard).
>> * We at the Mobile Speak list had a debate about why Code Factory does not
>> support all devices. In the end, the general conclusion was diversity of
>> device design and software compatibility. For instance, a guy who uses a
>> particular carrier version of HTC Touch Pro 2 couldn't answer a phone call
>> via Send key. He called the company and was told that this issue was
>> duplicated. Other folks who use the same device on other carriers report
>> that they don't experience this problem. Same went with HTC HD2 support:
>> people requested that CF should support it - in the end, some users sent
>> their phone to be examined by CF, and today (Friday) CF announced its
>> result
>> - support for this phone via a new build of Mobile Speak 4.5 (I think it
>> was
>> a device dat file that was created to be included in the executable
>> image).
>> * When Mobile Speak is installed, part of its routine is to get device
>> info
>> (model name, firmware, OS version, etc.) to optimize user interface layer
>> for that particular device, and if possible, to check if the device specs
>> match existing database of supported devices. Here, "optimizing user
>> interface layer" means getting the display info (for touchscreen devices
>> to
>> correctly calculate placement for gesture keys) and whether to activate
>> touch functionality (part of mspinputsvr.exe) depending on if it is a
>> Windows Mobile Classic, Standard or Professional device.
>> As for Motorola Q, think of it as a wider phone with QWERTY keyboard,
>> similar to a laptop computer's layout when the screen is opened. However,
>> to
>> compensate for smaller size, not all keyboard keys are there and the
>> directional keys are between the screen and the keyboard.
>> In my case, I do prefer "computer in a pocket", since I want to perform
>> more
>> than just call and read SMS messages with my phone. In addition to sending
>> and receiving phone calls and SMS messages, I browse the web, read email,
>> set alarms, listen to music and use third-party programs (specifically
>> games
>> and a small utility to clear temp files from my phone). This is the exact
>> same argument (ability to run third-party software) that a specific
>> blindness product is advertising, but we (the engineers) are not fooled by
>> the company since we do know what the limitations of that device is and
>> the
>> list for that device is debating the future of that particular PDA at the
>> moment.
>> In connection with the subject here, in order for the "computer in a
>> pocket"
>> to come alive with Android, I believe more developments and awareness of
>> accessibility among software developers would be needed. This could be
>> enhancements to Talkback (which is most likely route) or a port of
>> existing
>> solutions over to Android (somewhat possible).
>> Hope this helps.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph P.S. No wonder why my sighted friends are questioning how a blind
>> guy
>> can learn programming...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:46 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>
>> ok,
>> can anyone tell me what the motorola q looks like?
>> is it a regular phone where you hit 1-9 instead of certain keyboard
>> letters?
>> why did mobile speak restrict themselves to not running on phones like the
>> razr v3?
>> i asked about android stuff because windows mobile phones seem hard to
>> find.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>
>>
>>> Android is probably not up your alley, then. It's going for the computer
>>> in your pocket thing.
>>>
>>> On 07/30/2010 07:24 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>>> seems all of what you mention is web based.
>>>> all i want is to have a talking phone with sms texting.
>>>> i'll use a laptop for the rest and save $40+ a month.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cox" <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:42 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't say it speaks "all" other menus, but it does seem pretty
>>>> close. There are annoying gaps in some popular applications. The
>>>> microphone icon on the search bar is not spoken, and neither are other
>>>> icons on most other widgets. Some desktop widgets are not accessible
>>>> at all. There's not quite enough of the right kind of information
>>>> spoken, like what row and column you're on when browsing the desktop.
>>>>
>>>> However, the progress is very encouraging, and at some point I suspect
>>>> blind programmers will get involved and progress will accelerate.
>>>> What has to happen first is for Android to become the platform of
>>>> choice for the blind. I think that will happen.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Alphonso McFadden
>>>> <techsales2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> So does this mean it speaks all other menue's?
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cox" <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 12:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Bryan. Talkback in Android 2.2 is getting close to usable, but
>>>>> not quite there. The main problem remaining is that the browser and
>>>>> e-mail applications are not accessible, both of which I think use
>>>>> webkit. Work on making it accessible is underway. I think we can
>>>>> count on Google to get it where it needs to be, but I can't estimate
>>>>> the timeline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i called a local at&t wireless store and most of what they sell are
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> android operating system.
>>>>>> will mobile speak be created for this system or will there possibly be
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> free open source app to make these phones talk?
>>>>>> i would like to get an unlocked phone with no monthly fee off ebay for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> low
>>>>>> talk time charge when needed solution.
>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm relatively new to Android land as well, but from what I've done
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> far, yes, it's accessible depending on your experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Android comes with a variety of development tools; there's, as you
>>>>>>> mentioned, a plugin for Eclipse to help streamline the development
>>>>>>> experience (auto generated project files).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, all of this can be done by hand via the Android SDK using
>>>>>>> command line tools. One can also specify UI elements within an
>>>>>>> AndroidManifest xml file.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The learning curve isn't too bad as long as you are fairly
>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>> with exploring the technology stack (from the tools, to the SDK, to
>>>>>>> the application concepts such as intents, broadcasts, services, etc.
>>>>>>> and finally to managing a real device such as flashing, rooting,
>>>>>>> etc.).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/29/10, David Engebretson Jr. <d.engebretson@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I asked the same question a week back or so and didn't get a
>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>> Maybe we'll need to explore it together. try eyesfree.google.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>>> david
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Engebretson Jr., CTO Peace Weaver Hosting
>>>>>>>> Need web hosting?
>>>>>>>> Come visit us at PeaceWeaverHosting.com
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robert Jaquiss" <rjaquiss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 5:13 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Is Android Programming Accessible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am looking at a possible project that requires programming for an
>>>>>>>>> Android based device. Has anyone done this? My research to date
>>>>>>>>> indicates
>>>>>>>>> that Java is used with the Eclipse IDE and an Android SDK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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