That's interesting, especially since the vast majority of my BS comes from places other than the USA! I'd say about 15% is from the USA, the bulk of the remainder from Ch*ina then Rus*sia. What is really odd, is this still happens even after I have billions of APNIC and RIPE IP addresses blocked, and only a few USA based IP's blocked! Ordinarily I wouldn't put a lot of credence into only one testing firm's findings, but this also agrees with the USA being the largest: http://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/countries.lasso -Clint God Bless Clint Hamilton, Owner http://www.OrpheusComputing.com http://www.ComputersCustomBuilt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Kaulback" In case you missed this big piece of news about shutting down spammers http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/11/spam_volumes_drop_by_23_after.html and the decline in spam volume by two thirds. And, as it's been widely known for a long time the USA continues to be #1 source of spam on the planet. According to security firm Network Box the USA sends out 15% of all spam and 13% of all virus's, more than double it's closest junk mail rival, Turkey http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/botnet_spam_deluge/ Peter Kaulback Clint Hamilton-PCWorks Admin wrote: > First off, the only thing that's technically illegal is > sending > Spam, and only by the billions. There is no law for > "slandering" a person's email address (or slandering a > company > by posing as the company that is sending them) which is the > subject of this thread. > > But to continue on with Spam since you brought it > up.....being > technically "illegal", then finding the authorities that > actually have a backbone and will actually DO SOMETHING about > it, are two totally different things. Finding hits in a > search > engine for a search phrase, and finding the precedents where > something was actually DONE, are two totally different > things. > To date, there has been only ONE person prosecuted under the > anti-spam law, and only because he sent countless BILLIONS of > UCE's. I personally have filed numerous complaints with my > local District Attorney's offices (for both various email and > phone harassment), and NOT ONCE did they ever follow up or > even > call back! I've also filed countless police reports locally > AND in the local domicile of the parasite....NOTHING. They > simply do not care. > > Window dressing, eye candy. Here in the USA, there may be > laws, but they are not enforced. The Gov't here creates > similar laws all the time by the thousands, just to be > ignored. > And in the unlikely rare event you CAN find someone that > actually cares, the scumbag will get some bottom-feeding > lawyer > that will get them off on a "technicality", so they can > continue on with their rein of cyber-terror and cyber-crimes. > Or, some spastic judge (as you cited) that's more concerned > with the 1st Amendment that people's legit law-abiding > businesses and well being. > > I see it all the time, I've lived it, I know. Sure, there > may > be "laws", however, Laws are USELESS without the people with > the backbone that will ENFORCE them. It's going to take > (someone like me?) to get several thousand people to march on > Capitol Hill in D.C. that will create enough of a media > frenzy, > to get the Gov't to actually TAKE some action against these > parasites, or a class-action lawsuit against the Gov't for > failure to enforce. Why do you think they still do it? > Still > spam? Still commit the internet fraud? Still spoof/slander > businesses and people's email addresses? Simply because, > they > CAN. > > Drastic times, desperate measures. Fight back the only way > we > know how. I, and others that have also experienced these > atrocities first hand, will consider the Gov't as "caring" > when > they actually start prosecuting and delivering JAIL TIME for > these pieces of excrement. > -Clint > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Grossman" > > > > It is illegal, Clint. > > Google gives "about" 1,030,000 hits at > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=anti-spam+laws&aq=2&oq=anti-spam+ > for > "anti-spam laws." That shows that the government does care. > > Some of these laws are detailed at > http://www.spamlaws.com/spam-laws.html > > Unfortunately, there are still problems. We're not out of the > woods yet. The > Washington Post recently reported, at > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/09/virginia_anti-spam_law_ > overtur.html , that "The Virginia Supreme Court today struck > down a state > anti-spam law, saying the statute violated the First > Amendment > right to free > and anonymous speech. The decision also tossed out the > conviction of a North > Carolina man once described as one of the most prolific > spammers." > > That Virginia case proved that anti-spam legislation is still > not perfect. > However, it is in place, and it is improving all the time. > It's > important to > press the legislators to put through even stricter laws. > > Furthermore, althought the Virginia law was struck down, it > does not mean > that the government does not care. To the contrary - the > government did > create the law. That means that they do care. Now they will > have to re-write > the existing law so that it will be constitutional, and they > will have to > pass the new law. > > David Grossman > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> It's NOT illegal, THAT is the problem. The Gov't here >> doesn't >> care, nor does any other country. Fight fire with fire. I >> speak from much experience.....unfortunately. >> -Clint >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Grossman" >> >> >> Two reasons why I don't think that will work, Clint: >> >> 1. By sending them spam and trial subscriptions, we are >> lowering ourselves >> to their level, and thereby lowering our own self-esteem and >> self-worth. We >> may or may not stop them, but the price may be too high for >> decent people >> like us to bear. >> >> 2. If what they are doing is illegal, then when we do the >> same >> thing it >> would also be illegal. The difference is that they know how >> to >> carry out >> their nefarious activities without getting caught, and we >> don't >> know the >> tricks of their trade. They won't get caught. We will get >> caught. It's not >> worth it. >> >> David Grossman >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> In short Dale, there's nothing you can really do because >>> it's >>> likely this kind of cyber-terrorist scum is sending these >>> attacks from one of those cyber-terrorist criminal internet >>> cafes out of the USA, or using a email header forging >>> program. >>> All you can TRY to do: is you MUST get the full email >>> headers >>> in order to report it, but that's likely to be futile due >>> to >>> what I said above, and in the unlikely event they ARE from >>> a >>> REAL PC; it's from Europe (RIPE), Asia (APNIC) or S. >>> America >>> (LACNIC) the ISP's there don't care because they're in on >>> this >>> type of state-sponsored cyber-terrorism. >>> >>> You MIGHT, POSSIBLY, be able to do something if the email >>> headers are not forged, and are based in the USA. But you >>> have >>> no way of knowing if the headers are real or fake. If the >>> originating IP shows it's based in the USA, it's slightly >>> more >>> likely they MIGHT be real, but still not very likely. >>> >>> As Phil mentioned, contrary to all ISP's TOS/TOA policies, >>> they >>> DO CONDONE this kind of behavior, ignore it and turn a >>> blind >>> eye to it. And, SpamCop IS IN ON IT. For over a decade >>> I've >>> been telling those idiots at SpamCop the addresses to which >>> they are "allegedly reporting" these kinds of atrocities >>> are >>> BOGUS--either no longer valid or NEVER WERE in use! I have >>> even PROVIDED THEM with the real addresses! They don't >>> care, >>> they just keep using the same bogus reporting email >>> addresses >>> making the unsuspecting SC user think that something is >>> actually being done. >>> >>> What you have to do is take matters into your own hands, >>> but >>> again that could only help IF the email headers are real >>> and >>> not forged, and several other things have to fall into >>> place >>> for you: For example, if the emails have a website's URL >>> in >>> it, and IF, IF, IF, the whois information on the domain is >>> NOT >>> bogus (they usually are bogus, something also that is "not >>> allowed" by registrar's TOS/TOA yet they condone it), you >>> can >>> find ways of attacking the domain owner. Subscribe their >>> email >>> address to every kind of BS you can find, and have all >>> sorts >>> of >>> ridiculous things sent to their street address. For their >>> name, use something additional like "cyber-terrorist >>> parasite", >>> then when they get all these emails sent to them, trial >>> magazine subscriptions, vacuum cleaner free trials, etc., >>> etc., >>> it will be addressed to "Cyber-terrorist parasite", and >>> they'll >>> also have to handle the return of all these products and >>> cancellation of magazine subscriptions. Be sure and pick >>> some >>> "really choice" magazines and products. Magazines like >>> "Ge*nital Acne Quarterly", "Closet Cross-Dresser", etc., >>> they'll have to cancel (or will they?? HA!! No they don't >>> exist....at least not to my knowledge, but you get my >>> point), >>> LOL. Products like "personal pleasure enhancement >>> products" >>> that have "send no money now, we'll bill you later" promos, >>> preferably from places like "Nadine's House of Pleasure" >>> that >>> have really descriptive shipping boxes. ROTFLMAO. >>> Hopefully >>> they'll have really nosy gossipy neighbors and a nosy >>> gossiping >>> mailman/delivery person that will also make their life a >>> hell. >>> >>> You also immediately tell your ISP about this in efforts to >>> thwart any complaints about against you. That's in the >>> unlikely event your ISP actually does anything about >>> spammers >>> and cyber-terrorism. >>> -Clint ========================= The list's FAQ's can be seen by sending an email to PCWorks-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with FAQ in the subject line. To unsubscribe, subscribe, set Digest or Vacation to on or off, go to //www.freelists.org/list/pcworks . You can also send an email to PCWorks-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with Unsubscribe in the subject line. Your member list settings can be found at //www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/lsg2.cgi/l=pcworks . Once logged in, you have access to numerous other email options. The list archives are located at //www.freelists.org/archives/pcworks/ . 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